Our AC works fine but I don't like using it as it really adds up.
You also start out comfortable but an hour later if you set it too cold, you
end up using a sheet to
keep your front from freezing and your back and body core is still hot.
I mentioned the thermocouple idea as I have all the components to build one, I
am just missing a good 12vdc
pump and a couple of sensors.. The "blanket" is a series of plastic tubing sewn
in concentric channels between
cotton wicking.. a la quilt type design. The cooled liquid circulates through
the "blanket and excess heat is removed through a heat sink before cooling and
the cycle is repeated. I see no "clammy problem" with such a system. Once I get
those last parts, I am making one. I'll post the results,
regards
tallex
> -------Original Message-------
> From: Joe Street <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Subject: Re: [Biofuel] was...GeoExchange, on the cheap
> Sent: 04 Aug '06 17:59
>
> I never said I had a waterbed. But I slept on one when I was staying
> with freinds one time and it got unplugged. Nasty. I preffer a futon. Air
> does flow through blankets and sheets (and the futon actually) and any time
> you run chilled water through pipes you can get condensation so talk about
> sticky sheets how about damp ones? So then are you going to use a vapor
> barrier? That makes for clammy sleeping believe me, I know, from using a
> vapor barrier inside my sleeping bag while camping in Canadian winter
> conditions. It keeps your insulation dry, true, but warm and clammy is
> not what most people refer to as comfort! No I'll stick with controlling
> air temperature thank you, but consider that a straw bale home with a
> poured earthen plaster or concrete floor combined with the thick plaster
> on the walls and the awesome insulation properties of the bales, has
> enough thermal mass to prevent interior air from getting so damn hot (or
> cold in the winter). Visit one of these homes and see for yourself.
>
> Joe
>
> AltEnergyNetwork wrote:
>
>
> Whoa, you still sleep on a waterbed? ;-) I had one years ago, the good
> ones with the coils for added support. Had to get rid of it after about 8
> months because of back pain and restless. nights. They are really bad for
> your back as they offer very little support. Anyone that I know who ever
> had one got rid of theirs, long time ago as well. Not just my opinion,
> believe me, your back will pay from it years from now if you keep using
> one for long enough. Thermoelectric cooling and heating could be much
> more more efficient than AC for localised use such as thermoelectric
> liquid cooled/heated water for bed blankets, cooling vests. Eliminates EMF
> flowing close to the body, possible hazardous fire risks, dual
> heating/cooling and uses approx 70% less power than traditional AC.
> eliminates those hot, sticky sheets and lowers the need for running your
> larger cooling unit. Sounds like an ad, huh? Lot's of cool applications,
> me thinks, Portable units get more difficult because you have to be able
> to provide about 4.8 amps peak / per duty cycle and about 1/2 amp
> continuous. regards tallex
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> -------Original Message------- From: Joe Street [LINK:
> mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Subject: Re: [Biofuel] GeoExchange, on the cheap Sent: 04 Aug '06 14:23
> Hey Kirk; Ever slept on a waterbed that got unplugged and woken up at 4
> am shivering? Cooling my bed....uh ...no thanks. Joe Kirk McLoren
> wrote: Yes but using water like that certainly is only possible for a
> few. Most water systems are stressed already. The best method would be to
> use the latent heat of evaporation. It is important to know the relative
> humidity where you are. The "koolsuit" is a legitimate suggestion. 10
> pounds of ice in a backpack with circulatory system for arms and legs is
> a viable low energy low impact system. 1 pound of water water will
> absorb 1 BTU when raised 1 degree F. If you need many BTU the volume
> becomes considerable. Just as using fluorescent instead of tungsten
> makes sense so does limiting cooling to a suit and mattress also make
> sense. We need to soften our impact on the world around us. Kirk
> _MIKE REDLER [LINK: [LINK: MAILTO:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> MAILTO:[EMAIL PROTECTED] [LINK: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>_ wrote: Understood. But, why would I care if the
> sewer is a good heat sink? I suggested that the sewer be used as a way of
> discharging water after it had absorbed heat from inside the house (or
> apartment). I'm interested in finding a medium which is better than hot
> summer air for cooling the condenser and proposed that water, already
> cooled from being underground has the same benefit as geoexchange without
> the cost of digging a hole. - Redler Kirk McLoren wrote: Sewer
> lines are engineered for the load. Trust me they didnt install larger
> pipes so you can use them as a heat sink. The smaller the load the
> cheaper to refrigerate. A "koolsuit" would take maybe 300 watts. The
> rule of thumb in ac sizing is a ton per dozen occupants. Kirk
> _MIKE REDLER [LINK: [LINK: MAILTO:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> MAILTO:[EMAIL PROTECTED] [LINK: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>_ wrote: Bob, Joe, et al Sure, that much I knew.
> But, what I meant by "on the cheap" was to use the existing
> infrastructure (i.e. existing, underground water lines) as the ground
> source instead of requiring a new hole to be dug. Sewer lines could be
> used as a conduit for sending heat out of the house (or apartment).
> Perhaps the heated water could be contained and used as domestic hot
> water for the laundry (for example). I know that there is at least one
> company in Florida that pumps heat from one's attic into the domestic hot
> water supply so, it's quite possible. Using city water and sewer lines
> as conduit for ground sourcing wouldn't be a closed loop and I'm not sure
> of the volume (cost) of water required for it to be effective. The part I
> like about it is the apparent low cost in implementing it. In areas of
> the city where digging a hole gets complicated, this might be an
> effective alternative. -Redler bob allen wrote: It's being done
> all over the country. It's called ground source heat pumps. the
> condenser uses the ground (more specifically water in it) as the heat
> sink. It is fairly simple set up if you have a well. If not a
> contractor Takes a back hoe and lays plastic pipe horizontally for
> hundreds of feet a couple of feet down. [LINK: [LINK:
> http://www.geoexchange.org/] http://www.geoexchange.org/] [LINK:
> http://www.geoexchange.org/] http://www.geoexchange.org/ now if you
> mean is anybody "rolling their own" water cooled air condenser, I don't
> know. Mike Redler wrote: Hi everyone, As with many in this
> forum, I've been trying to stay cool today without switching on the AC.
> It's tempting but, so far I've resisted. I was standing under the
> shower head, thinking about what my air conditioner might be doing had
> it been turned on. Specifically, how the condenser responds to a
> difference in temperature and how that difference kinda sucks on an
> especially hot day. That lead me to a question. What would happen if
> you used cool city water to collect condenser heat? The warm water
> could then be sent down the drain and discarded. I'm just thinking
> out loud here and I wouldn't be at all surprised if someone else tried
> this. If so, please speak up. I wouldn't want to reinvent the wheel
> here. I have absolutely no numbers to back up the viability of this
> idea but, I do know that water is a better conductor of heat than
> (dry) air and the difference in temperature (outside air temp - city
> water temp) can conceivably be 35+ degrees F. It's so damn hot, I'm
> thinking of dissecting an air conditioner or dehumidifier and adapting
> it to my bathtub right now, with a fan blowing the cool air into the
> hallway. Of course, if the energy savings were not substantial I'd be
> kind of annoyed at myself for not crunching the numbers first.
> ...any thoughts? -Redler
>
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