Dear Pannirselvam, Thanks for the detailed response. I gather that there is good opportunity to add to the experimentally established results on castor based biodiesel and the blends that might work well. I'm right now exploring a tie-up with one of the govt research labs and an agricultural university here in India to set up a small research project. Your inputs are very helpful for me to determine how to set the scope of the project.There is a lot of hard selling on jatropha going on around here. My purpose is to match the results (FUD?) available on jatropha based agrofuel number by number with results on castor based fuel.
I posted a message last Sunday on the local scenario here regarding the new small car Tata Nano, but not sure if it got through to the list. Chandan Pagandai Pannirselvam wrote: > Dear Chandan and all the list member > > Even though I am in Brazil ,which export the meat very large , I > actualy live in the native place of south American Indians, even though I > also india from south India as you pointed out , Today the Festival > Pongal not only in Tamil nadu state , but also in Singapure ,Malaysia, , > as Cattle the animal are well treated as the make sustainable living > possible , not the machine tractor .Thus based on this old , we may think > of ruralise modern mega cities with plants , animals all mixed like what > happend in the road to new Delhi railway station . The Indian ways and > approach are always rural ecological and sustainable bio systems sotaht > several unemployed people can make biofuel from this mega city. Alcohol > stove , simple briquete made using animal waste can make possible a true > `Pongal festivel for all the citizen of the big city > > > Coming to your question the mixture formulation we ARRIVED after 17 year > of study to sue ethanol in compression engine is based on the two > hypothesis as you pointed out : the micro emulsion USING SURFACTANT BD > (alcohol, BD , Petro Diesel) and the co solvent effect , where as the > amount of BD need not to be very high compared to the micro emulsion > method , as this need more amount of BD and equipment too for making > emulsion with an energy intensive process. > > We came to this new useful biofuel product formula not only by > hypothesis , but using system engineering methods We do look for > simulated experiments results by google search to validate our hypothesis > and models .As Keith has pointed out some German group who also work with > vegetable oil have also reported this blend as the one work too , yet not > much details . > > Two years ago we worked out this biofuel blend , but we are not able to > go further experiments wiith lack of funds.We wish to have fresh look on > what Keith has told about the use of Ethanol and Castor oil , the the > successful experiments done in Brazil the ready avilable raw material in > Brazil. The Brazilian PETROBRAS has made patent on BD making diretly from > Castor seeds and make viable the process by coproducts values , so that > Brazil wish to be the Big Biofuel Producer of the world ( See who will be > the world big player of BD in future here in this list and also in our > recent wiki <http://www.ecosyseng.wetpaint.com/> (www.ecosyseng.wetpaint.com > ) > > To be very clear to ver question , we can say that not that our work is > hypothesis , but an system model , little proved yet we need much proven > practical results, as we have very little evidence and I am very sorry to > inform that much detailed studies not have been done , but we are on the > half way. > > Our work is indeed very limited to the time and money as an all Academic > University based sysem study, as Keith always refer it to be more limited > , but we are unable to go till the end , but stay in the halfway..Rarely > good fund is made as we get good results, as fund is over the good results > cant be turned into more useful and we wish to go further. > > There are two known method or way to make rural energy , use VO , or > BD , but for small system project we can think of one more way the hybrid > one the biofuel blend .In this new approach we can use BD very less as > it is also as an good co solvent additives and surfactant , thus we can > have less problems with adoption of motor with this new biofuel blend > compared to VO and as this need less energy, as BD making is not simple , > but a complex one to be done in village level .The big compnay can make > BD,the small farmer can thus can make his own localy made biofuel blend , > to aviod the economic exploition of the big oil companies .Both the public > and private oil company want to exploit the smal farmer buying the oil very > cheap and selling the fuel very high .Thus sustainable food will not be > possible with is present system ,as well documented by Keith in recent post > here in our list . > > More over vegetable oil use can be economic problem as the price are > expensive..The use of ethanol and BD extraction vegetable seed Principal > the castor and cashew nut oil as well as the biol oil can be pratical > method tommake biofuel .However in our system design approach we are > limited to approach . Surely who uses the system need to do the home work > experimenting the method. > > > Thus practical work alone without undersatanding what one do , can be good > for big biofuel as they wish to sell the products. > > Several public and private oil company have their patent related with > BD as additives.I am sure som of our list members also knows , do Phd work > .They will not make this open as they do not care for small systems and > also small farmer. > > Our system analysis group wish one understand the system , the use it , > not the block box ,practical ready made things. thus our approach > compliments several hand made , self made biofuel project published in JTF > by Keith. In recent work in our wiki <http://www.ecosyseng.wetpaint.com> ( > www.ecosyseng.wetpaint.com)we make system analysis of BD processes so that > our students and also all the new one can understand well the systems . > Once you understand,learned well , you need to reflect and practice it and > can be very creative to make inovative small system . Yet our system are > not real proven one , as our work is an part , and i wish the other can > make other part too. > > With India making the cheapest car , you can see , there will the food and > fuel conflict , we need systems work to get the both in decentralized > village level energy production. > > I am going to present two International paper on Expert conference in > India about fuel, food and water problems , and about the use of small > biogas and intehrated biosystems too. > > This will be my future post here to share more about biofuel and as you > have told , 2007 I contributed very less here and I am sure in 2008 , as > we are getting very good resuts and hope 2008 will the new year of bio > oil, pyrolysis gs , biogas based on CNSL and VO, Thus new biofuel can be > invented , to make underdeveloped farmers can make this globalized word > much more good place ,as they can also feed all and them too . > > Thanking for you the good question you made and wish happy 2008 for biofuel > list members . > The number of post are reducing , we all the old and new need to make this > list as the best which used to be. > > I expect reply of Keith for all the post , used to make the list much > dynamics and sure he is doing the best , yet the new list young list > members can make questions too , as the future of the global energy are in > their hands > > With kind regards > > Pannirselvam P.V > North East (semi Arid) BRAZIL > > > > > > > > > >> Coming to your question the mixture formulation we ARRIVED after 17 >> year of study to sue ethanol in compression engine is based on the two >> hypothesis as you pointed out : the micro emulsion USING SURFACTANT BD >> (alcohol, BD , Petro Diesel) and the co solvent effect , where as the >> amount of BD need not to be very high compared to the micro emulsion >> method , as this need more amount of BD and equipment too for making >> emulsion with an energy intensive process. >> >> We came to this new useful biofuel product formula not only by >> hypothesis , but using system engineering methods We do look for >> simulated experiments results by google search to validate our hypothesis >> and models .As Keith has pointed out some German group who also work with >> vegetable oil have also reported this blend as the one work too ., yet not >> much details . >> >> Two years ago we worked out this biofuel blend , but we are not able to >> go further experiemnts wiith lack of funds.We wish to have fresh look on >> what Keith has told about the use of Ethanol and Castor oil , the the >> successful experiments done in Brazil the ready avilable raw material in >> Brazil. The Brazilian PETROBRAS has made patent on BD making diretly from >> castor seeds and make viable the process by coproducts values , so that >> Brazil wish to be the Big Biofuel Produzer of the world ( See who will be >> the world big player of BD in future here in this list and also in our >> recent wiki <http://www.ecosyseng.wetpaint.com/> ( >> www.ecosyseng.wetpaint.com) >> >> To be very clear to ver question , we can say that not that our work >> is hypothesis , but an system model , little proved yet we need much >> proven practical results, as we have very little evidence and I am very >> sorry to inform that much detailed studies not have been done , but we are >> on the half way. >> >> Our work is indeed very limited to the time and money as an all >> Academic University based sysem study, as Keith always refer it to be >> more limited , but we are unable to go till the end , but stay in the >> halfway..Rarely good fund is made as we get good results, as fund is ove >> rthe good results cant be turned into more useful , as e wish to go >> further. >> >> There are two known method or way to make rural energy , use VO , or >> BD , but for small system project we can think of one more way the hybrid >> one the biofuel blend .In this new approach we can use BD very less as >> it is also as an good co solvent additives and surfactant , thus we can >> have less problems with adoption of motor with this new biofuel blend >> compared to VO and as this need less energy, as BD making is not simple , >> but a complex one to be done in village level .The big compnay can make >> BD,the small farmer can thus can make his own localy made biofuel blend , >> to aviod the economic exploition of the big oil companies .Both the public >> and private oil company want to exploit the smal farmer buying the oil very >> cheap and selling the fuel very high .Thus sustainable food will not be >> possible with is present system ,as well documented by Keith in recent post >> here in our list . >> >> More over vegetable oil use can be economic problem as the price are >> expensive..The use of ethanol and BD extraction vegetable seed Principal >> the castor and cashew nut oil as well as the biol oil can be pratical >> method tommake biofuel .However in our system design approach we are >> limited to approach . Surely who uses the system need to do the home work >> experimenting the method. >> >> >> Thus practical work alone without undersatanding what one do , can be >> good for big biofuel as they wish to sell the products. >> >> Several public and private oil company have their patent related with >> BD as additives.I am sure som of our list members also knows , do Phd >> work .They will not make this open as they do not care for small systems >> and also small farmer. >> >> Our system analysis group wish one understand the system , the use it , >> not the block box ,practical ready made things. thus our approach >> compliments several hand made , self made biofuel project published in JTF >> by Keith. In recent work in our wiki <http://www.ecosyseng.wetpaint.com/>( >> www.ecosyseng.wetpaint.com)we make system analysis of BD processes so >> that our students and also all the new one can understand well the systems >> . >> Once you understand,learned well , you need to reflect and practice it >> and can be very creative to make inovative small system . Yet our system >> are not real proven one , as our work is an part , and i wish the other can >> make other part too. >> >> With India making the cheapest car , you can see , there will the food and >> fuel conflict , we need systems work to get the both in decentralized >> village level energy production. >> >> I am going to present two International Paper on IAW Expert conference >> in , in Coimbatore , TN India about fuel, food and water problems , and >> about the use of small bio gas and integrated biosystems too in the 6 FEB , >> 2008. and wish to share indian experience also of the biofuel here. >> >> This will be the topic of my future post here to share more about >> biofuel and as you have told , in 2007 I contributed very less here and I >> am sure in 2008 , as we are getting very good results The 2008 will the >> new year of bio oil, pyrolysis gs , biogas based on CNSL and VO, surely >> biofuel blend will be the hot topic The new biofuel blend can be invented >> , to make underdeveloped farmers can make this globalized word much more >> good place ,as they can also feed well all the world and them too . >> >> Thanking for you the good question you have made and wish happy 2008 for >> biofuel list members .The number of post are reducing a bit , we all the old >> and new member need to make this list as the best which used to be ., which >> is and surley will be too . >> >> I wish too reply of Keith for all the post as he used to do always to >> make the list much dynamics with new useful data and sure he is doing the >> best for a long time , yet the new list young list members can make >> questions too , as the future of the global energy are in their hands to mak >> it more just and sustainable for all not for few. > > > >> With kind regards >> >> Pannirselvam P.V >> North East (semi Arid) BRAZIL _______________________________________________ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (70,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
