it really has gotten insane, hasn't it? it reminds me of those nature programs where they've recorded audio of insects feeding on plants: our world has become a cacophony of little munching sounds. such a model is unsustainable. . .period!
On 2/26/08, Keith Addison <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Hi Erik > > > > ... Technologies that may be > > > taking a back seat as a result include hydrogen fuel cell electric > >> vehicles. Nearly 24,000 hybrid vehicles were sold in the U.S. in > > > January 2008. > > > >Do you really agree with this one? Did I miss something somewhere? > > > >Seems to me that promoting hydrogen fuel cell over hybrids is NOT a > >good thing. Trying for pie-in-the-sky over what's available today. Of > >course modern diesels get better mileage than the currently available > >hybrids, but seems if they threw a diesel into a hybrid drivetrain it > >would only get better. Not that I'm promoting that people should go > >out and buy those SUV hybrids and think they're doing better than the > >guy down the street who's still driving his old 1985 diesel. I don't > >like the big hybrids myself. > > > >But promoting fuel cells over hybrids, which you can get TODAY seems > >the wrong way to go. Is there something that I'm not seeing? Usually > >this list, and definitely you, Keith are on track with my opinions on > >such things. > > > >Seems either things have changed, or this article managed to slip in > somehow? > > > >Thanks, > >Erik > > Quite so, nothing changed. > > I reckoned we'd been there often enough already not to take > pie-in-the-sky over fuel cells and hydrogen seriously, of course I > don't agree with it. > > But I don't think much of the fashion for hybrids either, since > that's what it is, mostly, IMHO, a fashion. > > No doubt they're better than most or all of the other choices hybrid > buyers are offered, but it's the wrong comparison. Aren't hybrid > owners mostly "lite greens", eco-consumers shopping their way to a > sustainable future? Though of course there are interim benefits, it's > a delusion that changing consumer choices can be a real solution. > Consumerism is the problem, or one of them, adjusting it won't fix > it. The only real consumer education boils down to a stark and simple > message: stop it! > > Dawie said this recently: > > >Or they might have six cars, as another family might have a hot-air > >balloon or a room full of pianos and no cars. The point is that they > >oughtn't to be using those cars daily, as the obvious or only way to > >get from A to B. That "micro" output should be ample for the > >twenty-odd cars more than which one would not hope to find in a > >fairly sizeable community, if they are used sanely - and of those > >one might be a first-strike pump and another an ambulance. > > I think that's a better comparison. > > Best > > Keith > > > >On Mon, Feb 25, 2008 at 9:26 AM, Keith Addison > ><[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > >> > >> <http://www.prwatch.org/node/7007> > >> Are Hybrids Putting the Brakes on Greener Options? > >> Source: Wired, February 11, 2008 > >> French researchers are concerned that consumer demand for hybrid > >> cars, fueled by advertising and PR, is slowing down the development > >> of genuinely sustainable green auto technologies. Their report, > >> Hybrid Vehicles: A Temporary Step, states that "There is a general > >> convergence of strategies toward promoting hybrid vehicles as the > >> mid-term solution to very low-emissions and high-mileage vehicles ... > >> Such a convergence is based more on customer perception triggered by > >> very clever marketing and communications campaigns than on pure > >> rational scientific arguments and may result in the need for any > >> manufacturer operating in the USA to have a hybrid electric vehicle > > > in its model range in order to survive." Technologies that may be > >> taking a back seat as a result include hydrogen fuel cell electric > >> vehicles. Nearly 24,000 hybrid vehicles were sold in the U.S. in > >> January 2008. > >> > > > >Do you really agree with this one? Did I miss something somewhere? > > > >Seems to me that promoting hydrogen fuel cell over hybrids is NOT a > >good thing. Trying for pie-in-the-sky over what's available today. Of > >course modern diesels get better mileage than the currently available > >hybrids, but seems if they threw a diesel into a hybrid drivetrain it > >would only get better. Not that I'm promoting that people should go > >out and buy those SUV hybrids and think they're doing better than the > >guy down the street who's still driving his old 1985 diesel. I don't > >like the big hybrids myself. > > > >But promoting fuel cells over hybrids, which you can get TODAY seems > >the wrong way to go. Is there something that I'm not seeing? Usually > >this list, and definitely you, Keith are on track with my opinions on > >such things. > > > >Seems either things have changed, or this article managed to slip in > somehow? > > > >Thanks, > >Erik > > > _______________________________________________ > Biofuel mailing list > Biofuel@sustainablelists.org > http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel > > Biofuel at Journey to Forever: > http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html > > Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (70,000 > messages): > http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ > _______________________________________________ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (70,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
