On Wed, Dec 20, 2017 at 4:26 PM, Ted Kremenek <kreme...@apple.com> wrote:
> > On Dec 19, 2017, 8:33 PM -0800, Ted Kremenek via swift-dev < > swift-dev@swift.org>, wrote: > > > > On Dec 19, 2017, at 5:08 PM, Saleem Abdulrasool <compn...@compnerd.org> > wrote: > > > > On Dec 19, 2017, at 3:59 PM, Ted Kremenek <kreme...@apple.com> wrote: > > > > On Dec 19, 2017, at 2:31 PM, Daniel Dunbar <daniel_dun...@apple.com> > wrote: > > > > On Dec 19, 2017, at 2:27 PM, Ted Kremenek <kreme...@apple.com> wrote: > > Fair enough. > > We care about swiftc and llbuild building a variety of platforms today — > FreeBSD, Rasberry Pi, etc. My impression is that C++14 is generally > supported by both (a) the mininum versions of the distributions we support > today and (b) the current versions of the platforms we’d like to expand > Swift to in the future. Does that sound right? I suspect you went through > the same kind of reasoning with llbuild. > > > It sounds reasonable, but to be honest I never did an audit of what > platforms supported C++14. > > > Interesting. Was that not a concern when that choice was made for > llbuild, or was the context different? > > > I do think that we could always use the Clang++ we build as part of Swift > to build Swift itself. By that logic, it seems reasonable to expect we > could always have C++14 support, although it does mean that porters would > need modern Clang to support their platform. However, that is likely > largely a prerequisite for Swift to work as well. > > > That’s a significant change to make just to get C++14 support guaranteed, > and (I believe) would have a non-trivial impact on those using development > environments that expect to use the Clang bundled with them to build > projects. > > > Agreed. However, the current supported platforms already support this > minimum. I think that future platforms will need to provide that anyways. > If the system doesn’t have a modern toolchain available, I suspect that it > already would not have C++11 available either. In such a scenario, they > need to provide a newer toolchain, and so the difference there is minimal > as we already require C++11. > > > OK, I’m convinced. > > I want to hold off for a tiny bit just to see if anyone else has any > commentary on this thread before we make a change. > > > We’d also need to make this change on the LLDB side, and I realize now > that a few people I’d like to weigh in are on vacation until the holidays. > How about we pick this up immediately in the new year once it’s clear > everyone that should weigh in has had a chance to do so. > Just a post-holiday bump to bring this back up :-). I'd like to get this merged so that the other Windows stuff is unblocked. > > > > > - Daniel > > > On Dec 19, 2017, 2:23 PM -0800, Daniel Dunbar <daniel_dun...@apple.com>, > wrote: > > It wasn’t changed, it has *always* been C++14 since the day we open > sourced it. I only investigated the platforms we officially support (Ubuntu > 14.04/15.10 at the time, and macOS 10.10+ IIRC). > > - Daniel > > On Dec 19, 2017, at 2:21 PM, Ted Kremenek <kreme...@apple.com> wrote: > > Daniel, > > When you changed llbuild to require C++14, what platforms did you take > into account with that change? If you have already done the assessment here > it could speed a resolution of a decision. > > Thanks, > Ted > > On Dec 13, 2017, at 3:19 PM, Daniel Dunbar via swift-lldb-dev < > swift-lldb-...@swift.org> wrote: > > FWIW, llbuild requires C++14. > > We have to do some minor shenanigans to workaround bugs in libstdc++ on > 14.04, and our use is probably minimal, but just throwing that out there. > > - Daniel > > On Dec 13, 2017, at 1:45 PM, Jordan Rose via swift-lldb-dev < > swift-lldb-...@swift.org> wrote: > > No one else has commented on this yet today, so I'll put in that I don't > have any objections to this and don't foresee any major problems. The one > place where we'd need to be careful is with LLDB, which imports Swift > headers; if Swift is going to move to C++14, then Swift-LLDB probably has > to as well. LLDB folks, what do you think? > > The other thing to check is if our minimum Clang or libstdc++ requirements > on Linux didn't support C++14. It looks like our README is vague on that, > but LLDB already suggests a minimum requirement of Clang 3.5, which is new > enough. I suspect we're okay here. > > Jordan > > > On Dec 13, 2017, at 10:36, Saleem Abdulrasool via swift-dev < > swift-dev@swift.org> wrote: > > Hi, > > The newer Windows SDK requires the use of C++14 (the SDK headers use > `auto` return types without trailing type information). Joe mentioned that > there was some interest in switching the rest of swift to C++14 as well. I > figured that I would just start a thread here to determine if this is okay > to do globally rather than just specifically for the Windows builds to > ensure that we can build the Windows components. > > Thanks. > > -- > Saleem Abdulrasool > compnerd (at) compnerd (dot) org > _______________________________________________ > swift-dev mailing list > swift-dev@swift.org > https://lists.swift.org/mailman/listinfo/swift-dev > > > _______________________________________________ > swift-lldb-dev mailing list > swift-lldb-...@swift.org > https://lists.swift.org/mailman/listinfo/swift-lldb-dev > > > _______________________________________________ > swift-lldb-dev mailing list > swift-lldb-...@swift.org > https://lists.swift.org/mailman/listinfo/swift-lldb-dev > > > _______________________________________________ > swift-dev mailing list > swift-dev@swift.org > https://lists.swift.org/mailman/listinfo/swift-dev > > -- Saleem Abdulrasool compnerd (at) compnerd (dot) org
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