Please treat your fellow contributors with respect and equanimity. Best, Austin
> On Dec 27, 2015, at 3:38 PM, Alexander Regueiro via swift-evolution > <[email protected]> wrote: > > Then you clear know nothing of the history of computer science. I repeat, the > original syntax of the lambda calculus, to which you were referring, was > *not* designed for readability. Its purpose was entirely different. This is > only the start of the differences – there really isn’t anything to be gained > by comparing Swift with it – the differences in aim, nature, and context are > vast. > > Now, you’re comparing a lambda expression to a let binding? That’s even more > nonsensical. > > Bye. > >> On 27 Dec 2015, at 23:30, Developer <[email protected]> wrote: >> >> Now, now, that's no way to talk about a century's worth of computing >> research. >> >> Since you have yet to respond to my original point, I'll expound: >> >> I see Swift's choice of "in" in context of other programming languages that >> admit anonymous inner scopes with little fuss. Those tend to come from the >> ML-family, which uses >> >> // args in scope >> let e = expr in body >> >> Here, what is lacking is visibility of scope, but what is gained is >> composability. Swift takes this a step further with >> >> let e = { args in body }(expr) >> >> Thus, coming from the C-side of things, you get nearly the same benefits as >> the former, but with the feel of a C-like language. To change `in` or >> permute the ordering of binder, body, or delimiter detracts from Swift's >> position in either of these. >> >> All the best, >> >> ~Robert Widmann >> >> 2015/12/27 18:07、Alexander Regueiro <[email protected]> のメッセージ: >> >>> The lambda calculus is a mathematical tool. It’s not designed for >>> readability. Your point is invalid. >>> >>>> On 27 Dec 2015, at 23:03, Developer <[email protected]> wrote: >>>> >>>> With a proper λ, that's the point. The lambda calculus doesn't focus on >>>> the delimiter between the binder and the body because it isn't the >>>> important part of an abstraction, the rest is. I would argue a >>>> programming language shouldn't either. What is to be gained by having >>>> more syntax around a construct all about anonymity? >>>> >>>> ~Robert Widmann >>>> >>>> 2015/12/27 17:56、Alexander Regueiro <[email protected]> のメッセージ: >>>> >>>>> It’s been agreed by almost everyone that “in” is at the very least a poor >>>>> delimiter. It’s barely noticeable. >>>>> >>>>>> On 27 Dec 2015, at 22:54, Developer <[email protected]> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> Hell, we have Unicode support, why not λ (U+03BB)? Seriously though, >>>>>> for a C-like language I have to agree that Swift's approach is one of >>>>>> the best. I can't think of a way of improving it that wouldn't >>>>>> immediately clash with the style and syntax of the language. Sure you >>>>>> could change a few keywords here and there, but fundamentally >>>>>> >>>>>> { args in body } >>>>>> >>>>>> Strikes a balance between C-like basic blocks and Objective-C-like >>>>>> blocks. When you start making more of this implicit or shifting it >>>>>> around, you have to necessarily start caring about things like >>>>>> whitespace and implicit scoping (I notice in the example you give, it is >>>>>> immediately less clear which identifiers are bound into what block). >>>>>> Things I don't think Swift wants you to care about, or makes explicit >>>>>> where you should. Losing a few characters here and there doesn't seem >>>>>> worth it to lose an equal amount of declarative-ness. >>>>>> >>>>>> ~Robert Widmann >>>>>> >>>>>> 2015/12/27 17:24、Brent Royal-Gordon via swift-evolution >>>>>> <[email protected]> のメッセージ: >>>>>> >>>>>>>> In this mail I’m answering several statements made in this thread by >>>>>>>> different people, not only Brent’s mail from which I just picked the >>>>>>>> following snippet: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> let names = people.map => person { person.name } >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> For me that is more difficult to read than >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> let names = people.map { person in person.name } >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Especially when chaining is used, i.e. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> let names = people.filter => person { person.isFriend }.map => person >>>>>>>> { person.name } >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> (or would I have to add parentheses somewhere with this proposed >>>>>>>> syntax?) >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> vs. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> let names = people.filter { person in person.isFriend }.map { person >>>>>>>> in person.name } >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I said in the email that => is too visually heavy for this role. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Here's something lighter, although I'm still not satisfied with it, and >>>>>>> not seriously suggesting it: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> let names = people.map ~ person { person.name } >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Or even: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> let names = people.map \person { person.name } >>>>>>> >>>>>>> However, I'm really struggling to find anything that I actually like >>>>>>> here. This may be one of those cases where we dislike what's there and >>>>>>> explore a bunch of options, only to find out that the current thing >>>>>>> actually is the least bad alternative after all. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> -- >>>>>>> Brent Royal-Gordon >>>>>>> Architechies >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> swift-evolution mailing list >>>>>>> [email protected] >>>>>>> https://lists.swift.org/mailman/listinfo/swift-evolution >>> > > _______________________________________________ > swift-evolution mailing list > [email protected] > https://lists.swift.org/mailman/listinfo/swift-evolution _______________________________________________ swift-evolution mailing list [email protected] https://lists.swift.org/mailman/listinfo/swift-evolution
