On 15.06.2016 19:00, Xiaodi Wu wrote:
On Wed, Jun 15, 2016 at 10:51 AM, Vladimir.S via swift-evolution
<[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote:
On 15.06.2016 17:19, Sean Heber wrote:
On Jun 15, 2016, at 7:21 AM, Vladimir.S via swift-evolution
<[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>>
wrote:
I believe we should not take into account any IDE features when
discussing the *language*. One will write Swift script code in
vim on
linux, other will read in web browser on github etc.
Unrelated to anything else in this discussion, I just wanted to respond
to this and say that I’m totally opposed to this line of thinking.
If we
continue to design languages that must accommodate the lowest common
denominator in terms of tooling, we’ll never advance anything in
meaningful ways. Tooling is super important and it is mostly terrible.
It could be so much better. We don’t have much (any?) influence over
Xcode via swift-evolution, but if the language evolves in ways where
smarter, better, more advanced IDEs are the best way to use it, then
Xcode will adapt and if Xcode adapts and proves a better workflow, then
other tools will also adapt and everyone in any language on all
platforms will eventually benefit from that exploration.
Well, of course I support improvement of tools & IDEs in all the ways
that can help developer. But I'm against suggestions to solve some
problem *in languge* by introducing some feature in *IDE*(especially in
only one IDE - XCode), like the suggestion to solve ambiguity with
order of processing in complex expression by *only* showing some hints
in XCode.
I.e. I'm voting to solve problem in language itself first, and then(or
if can't be solved) in IDE.
I think the counterpoint to be made here is that if a satisfying solution
to the problem can be found through better tooling, then arguably the
problem lies with tooling and not with the language itself.
Yes, probably. But I do believe the language itself is a first class
citizen, tools are just helpers. You need to have the same coding features
on any platform/editor/IDE where you write Swift code. You should not be
able to easily write complex expressions just because of super-smart helper
in XCode but be without help on Linux platform. Tool can exist for example
only for XCode but absent for other platform you are coding on also. IMO
You just can't depend on tools in the question of language features. This
is my strong opinion.
l8r Sean
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