On 23.06.2016 0:21, Erica Sadun via swift-evolution wrote:
On Jun 14, 2016, at 8:16 PM, Xiaodi Wu via swift-evolution
<[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote:
As you will see from earlier messages, the confused user is both quite
real and *is* on this list. Nor, mind you, are pedagogical concerns to be
trivialized; they are serious concerns for the design of the language. On
what grounds do you assert that something is "not confusing at all" when
there has been testimony saying "it was confusing to me"?
Some of us on this list interact regularly with novice coders. I draw
upon these experiences here. Do you have some special insight you'd like
to share in that regard?
On Tue, Jun 14, 2016 at 20:57 Jon Akhtar <[email protected]
<mailto:[email protected]>> wrote:
How about the goal of it being a delightful language to program in. I
think that is getting lost in proposals like these. Optimizing for
some mythical new user, who really isn’t present on this list to give
an opinion seems like a false argument to make, and your technical
sophistication makes you a less qualified than most to say what is
and what isn’t confusing to new users because you haven’t been one in
a long time.
-1 Leve it in. It is perfectly simple as is. Not confusing at all.
There are far more confusing aspects to the language than this.
Cheers
Yet another case from a few minutes ago:
Sorry.. but.. And what? Suggest <rullie> to write simple SQL query, will
he/she be confused by 'WHERE' there? If <rullie> didn't know *for sure*
what does 'where' means, why he/she didn't check docs or just checked in
playground/IBM Swift Sandbox?
You found one more user confused by 'where'. I can find N users that were
not confused by it even first time he/she saw it in code. And can find M
users confused by any other construction/element of Swift. I just don't
think such 'cases' could be treated as information that proves anything.
rullie <member:rullie>: hi, could someone walk me through
this http://pastie.org/10887040
[3:08pm] rullie <member:rullie>: why is it that for loop through an lazy
infinite sequence does not terminate even with the where clause invovled?
[
[3:08pm] mikeash <member:mikeash>: "where" means "skip iterations when this
condition is not true"
[3:08pm] mikeash <member:mikeash>: it doesn't mean "halt the loop when this
is not true"
[3:08pm] rullie <member:rullie>: oh whoa.. ok
[3:09pm] mikeash <member:mikeash>: it can't know that you'll never see
another value < 100, so <member:so> it keeps on going
[3:09pm] rullie <member:rullie>: ok, i completely misunderstood the where
clause then
[3:10pm] mikeash <member:mikeash>: I can see how it might look like it does
that
[3:10pm] rullie <member:rullie>: is there a syntax that achieves what i
want to do without having to have a if-break in the loop?
-- E
p.s. Posted with permission from both participants
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