I'm actually convinced that I'd rather use an email client. Having to 
participate in a web app is a regression in my experience.

Daniel Duan
Sent from my iPhone

> On Jan 26, 2017, at 10:15 AM, Adrian Zubarev via swift-evolution 
> <[email protected]> wrote:
> 
> Awesome :) Hopefully that will finally convince the people what ‘are working 
> on this’ to actually make it ;)
> 
> I could find some really old threads of mine in just seconds. My mail client 
> cannot do that job that well. 
> 
> Cannot wait 🤤
> 
> -- 
> Adrian Zubarev
> Sent with Airmail
> 
> Am 26. Januar 2017 um 19:03:13, Nate Cook via swift-evolution 
> ([email protected]) schrieb:
> 
>> 
>>> On Jan 25, 2017, at 3:32 PM, Douglas Gregor via swift-evolution 
>>> <[email protected]> wrote:
>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> On Jan 25, 2017, at 12:05 PM, Ted Kremenek via swift-evolution 
>>>> <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> I have no problem with the project moving to forums instead of the Mailman 
>>>> mailing lists we have now — if it is the right set of tradeoffs.
>>>> 
>>>> My preference is to approach the topic objectively, working from goals and 
>>>> seeing how the mailing lists are aligning with those goals and how an 
>>>> alternative, such as Discourse, might do a better job.
>>>> 
>>>> The current use of mailing lists has been carry-over of how both LLVM does 
>>>> public discussion (which is all mailing lists) and how the Swift team at 
>>>> Apple has used mailing lists for discussion.  That inertia has benefits in 
>>>> that it is a familiar workflow that is “proven” to work — but the doesn’t 
>>>> mean it is the best option going forward.
>>>> 
>>>> Here are some of the things that matter to me:
>>>> 
>>>> - Topics are easy to manage and search, with stable URLs for archives.
>>>> 
>>>> - It is easy to reference other topics with a stable (canonical) URL that 
>>>> allows you to jump into that other topic easily.  That’s hard to do if you 
>>>> haven’t already been subscribed to the list.
>>>> 
>>>> - Works fine with email clients, for those who want to keep that workflow 
>>>> (again this inertia is important).
>>>> 
>>>> - Code formatting, and other tools that add clarity in communication, are 
>>>> a huge plus.
>>>> 
>>>> I’d like to understand more the subjective comments on this thread, such 
>>>> as "may intimidate newcomers”.  This feels very subjective, and while I am 
>>>> not disagreeing with that statement I don’t fully understand its 
>>>> justification.  Signing up for mailing lists is fairly straightforward, 
>>>> and one isn’t obligated to respond to threads.  Are forums really any less 
>>>> “intimating”? If so, why is that the case?  Is this simply a statement 
>>>> about mailing lists not being in vogue?
>>>> 
>>>> I do also think the asynchronous nature of the mailing lists is important, 
>>>> as opposed to discussions feeling like a live chat.  Live chat, such as 
>>>> the use of Slack the SwiftPM folks have been using, is very useful too, 
>>>> but I don’t want participants on swift-evolution or any of our mailing 
>>>> lists feel obligated to respond in real time — that’s simply not the 
>>>> nature of the communication on the lists.
>>>> 
>>>> So in short, using mailing lists specifically is not sacred — we can 
>>>> change what we use for our community discussions.  I just want an 
>>>> objective evaluation of the needs the mailing lists are meant to serve, 
>>>> and work from there.  If moving to something like (say) Discourse would be 
>>>> a negative on a critical piece that is well-served by the mailing lists, 
>>>> that would (in my opinion) a bad direction to take.  I’m not saying that 
>>>> is the case, just that this is how I prefer we approach the discussion.
>>> 
>>> I’ve looked into Discourse a bit, and it does look very promising. One 
>>> *specific* way in which a motivated individual could help would be to take 
>>> a look at Discourse’s import scripts and try importing swift-evolution’s 
>>> mailing archives with them. We absolutely do not want to lose history when 
>>> we switch technologies. Do the messages import well? Are threading and 
>>> topics maintained in a reasonable manner? Does Discourse provide effective 
>>> UI for looking into past discussions on some specific topic we’re 
>>> interested in?
>>> 
>>> - Doug
>> 
>> ✋
>> 
>> I forged the mighty, turgid rivers of rubyenv, hand-tweaked gem 
>> dependencies, and sed-cleaned mbox files to try this out—you can see the 
>> results of an import (using one or two day old data) at this address:
>> http://discourse.natecook.com/
>> 
>> It looks like the threads were handled properly, though they bear some 
>> obvious marks of their mailing list origins. Users can actually claim their 
>> accounts if they do a password reset. However:
>> - it's hooked up to a trial SendGrid account, which will top out at 100 
>> emails/day
>> - I should probably delete this soon so Google doesn't think it's the real 
>> deal
>> 
>> I might have mentioned this before, but I'm strongly in favor of forum-based 
>> solution over the mailing list (at least for this group), and Discourse 
>> seems to be the best one running right now (and fairly open to extension and 
>> customization). I made a new topic here to demonstrate a couple features 
>> (code blocks and inline images):
>> http://discourse.natecook.com/t/pitch-add-dark-mode-to-swift/3051
>> 
>> Thanks -
>> Nate
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> swift-evolution mailing list
>> [email protected]
>> https://lists.swift.org/mailman/listinfo/swift-evolution
> _______________________________________________
> swift-evolution mailing list
> [email protected]
> https://lists.swift.org/mailman/listinfo/swift-evolution
_______________________________________________
swift-evolution mailing list
[email protected]
https://lists.swift.org/mailman/listinfo/swift-evolution

Reply via email to