Sent from my iPad
> On Jan 26, 2017, at 12:26 PM, Daniel Duan via swift-evolution > <swift-evolution@swift.org> wrote: > > I'm actually convinced that I'd rather use an email client. Having to > participate in a web app is a regression in my experience. +1. I like email way better than web forums for this kind of discussion. > > Daniel Duan > Sent from my iPhone > >> On Jan 26, 2017, at 10:15 AM, Adrian Zubarev via swift-evolution >> <swift-evolution@swift.org> wrote: >> >> Awesome :) Hopefully that will finally convince the people what ‘are working >> on this’ to actually make it ;) >> >> I could find some really old threads of mine in just seconds. My mail client >> cannot do that job that well. >> >> Cannot wait 🤤 >> >> -- >> Adrian Zubarev >> Sent with Airmail >> >> Am 26. Januar 2017 um 19:03:13, Nate Cook via swift-evolution >> (swift-evolution@swift.org) schrieb: >> >>> >>>> On Jan 25, 2017, at 3:32 PM, Douglas Gregor via swift-evolution >>>> <swift-evolution@swift.org> wrote: >>>> >>>>> >>>>> On Jan 25, 2017, at 12:05 PM, Ted Kremenek via swift-evolution >>>>> <swift-evolution@swift.org> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> I have no problem with the project moving to forums instead of the >>>>> Mailman mailing lists we have now — if it is the right set of tradeoffs. >>>>> >>>>> My preference is to approach the topic objectively, working from goals >>>>> and seeing how the mailing lists are aligning with those goals and how an >>>>> alternative, such as Discourse, might do a better job. >>>>> >>>>> The current use of mailing lists has been carry-over of how both LLVM >>>>> does public discussion (which is all mailing lists) and how the Swift >>>>> team at Apple has used mailing lists for discussion. That inertia has >>>>> benefits in that it is a familiar workflow that is “proven” to work — but >>>>> the doesn’t mean it is the best option going forward. >>>>> >>>>> Here are some of the things that matter to me: >>>>> >>>>> - Topics are easy to manage and search, with stable URLs for archives. >>>>> >>>>> - It is easy to reference other topics with a stable (canonical) URL that >>>>> allows you to jump into that other topic easily. That’s hard to do if >>>>> you haven’t already been subscribed to the list. >>>>> >>>>> - Works fine with email clients, for those who want to keep that workflow >>>>> (again this inertia is important). >>>>> >>>>> - Code formatting, and other tools that add clarity in communication, are >>>>> a huge plus. >>>>> >>>>> I’d like to understand more the subjective comments on this thread, such >>>>> as "may intimidate newcomers”. This feels very subjective, and while I >>>>> am not disagreeing with that statement I don’t fully understand its >>>>> justification. Signing up for mailing lists is fairly straightforward, >>>>> and one isn’t obligated to respond to threads. Are forums really any >>>>> less “intimating”? If so, why is that the case? Is this simply a >>>>> statement about mailing lists not being in vogue? >>>>> >>>>> I do also think the asynchronous nature of the mailing lists is >>>>> important, as opposed to discussions feeling like a live chat. Live >>>>> chat, such as the use of Slack the SwiftPM folks have been using, is very >>>>> useful too, but I don’t want participants on swift-evolution or any of >>>>> our mailing lists feel obligated to respond in real time — that’s simply >>>>> not the nature of the communication on the lists. >>>>> >>>>> So in short, using mailing lists specifically is not sacred — we can >>>>> change what we use for our community discussions. I just want an >>>>> objective evaluation of the needs the mailing lists are meant to serve, >>>>> and work from there. If moving to something like (say) Discourse would >>>>> be a negative on a critical piece that is well-served by the mailing >>>>> lists, that would (in my opinion) a bad direction to take. I’m not >>>>> saying that is the case, just that this is how I prefer we approach the >>>>> discussion. >>>> >>>> I’ve looked into Discourse a bit, and it does look very promising. One >>>> *specific* way in which a motivated individual could help would be to take >>>> a look at Discourse’s import scripts and try importing swift-evolution’s >>>> mailing archives with them. We absolutely do not want to lose history when >>>> we switch technologies. Do the messages import well? Are threading and >>>> topics maintained in a reasonable manner? Does Discourse provide effective >>>> UI for looking into past discussions on some specific topic we’re >>>> interested in? >>>> >>>> - Doug >>> >>> ✋ >>> >>> I forged the mighty, turgid rivers of rubyenv, hand-tweaked gem >>> dependencies, and sed-cleaned mbox files to try this out—you can see the >>> results of an import (using one or two day old data) at this address: >>> http://discourse.natecook.com/ >>> >>> It looks like the threads were handled properly, though they bear some >>> obvious marks of their mailing list origins. Users can actually claim their >>> accounts if they do a password reset. However: >>> - it's hooked up to a trial SendGrid account, which will top out at 100 >>> emails/day >>> - I should probably delete this soon so Google doesn't think it's the real >>> deal >>> >>> I might have mentioned this before, but I'm strongly in favor of >>> forum-based solution over the mailing list (at least for this group), and >>> Discourse seems to be the best one running right now (and fairly open to >>> extension and customization). I made a new topic here to demonstrate a >>> couple features (code blocks and inline images): >>> http://discourse.natecook.com/t/pitch-add-dark-mode-to-swift/3051 >>> >>> Thanks - >>> Nate >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> swift-evolution mailing list >>> swift-evolution@swift.org >>> https://lists.swift.org/mailman/listinfo/swift-evolution >> _______________________________________________ >> swift-evolution mailing list >> swift-evolution@swift.org >> https://lists.swift.org/mailman/listinfo/swift-evolution > _______________________________________________ > swift-evolution mailing list > swift-evolution@swift.org > https://lists.swift.org/mailman/listinfo/swift-evolution
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