This thread might take a little time to get a full answer from Chris as
he is GETTING MARRIED this week and might be a little preoccupied for a
while.
But what I know is:
Strongs numbers above the standard max number were added as a system
created in the OLB era and are verb parse codes. I think just maybe we
might have created a module a long while ago to give a basic parse code
for each of these, but I really don't remember. It would have been made
by Chris, so we'll have to wait a bit to find out.
Daniel Owens wrote:
I am active (sometimes) at openscriptures.org, especially working on the
MorphHB. We plan to tag it morphologically, but I don't expect we will
use codes like those in the KJV. I have no idea what they stand for, and
I have no idea where they come from.
Looking at kjvfull.xml from CrossWire, I see that there are morphology
codes like this: morph="strongMorph:TH8804", but a quick look at Genesis
1:1-2 suggest that they are only attached to verbs. If they stand for
something meaningful, which is a reasonable assumption, you could likely
get someone to go through and try to guess what they stand for by
comparing Hebrew words with the same code and then create a morphology
module from that, but that would take time. I wonder if DM has any idea
where these come from. He is the last to work on the KJV module.
Daniel
On 2/19/2010 11:49 PM, Nic Carter wrote:
Hi Manfred,
I'm curious as to what module you are using to look up these keys?
I'm under the understanding that looking up values like "TH8804" won't
return a valid result, as we don't have a lexicon containing these keys?
I'm using this forum thread to justify my answer:
http://www.crosswire.org/forums/mvnforum/viewthread_thread,772
On this note, I'm going to show an error message in PocketSword when
someone tries to look up one of these Morphology codes, and the error
message will be:
"Unfortunately, Morphological Analysis Codes are only currently
available for Greek words. If you have the language ability and are
willing to help bring this feature to PocketSword, please take a look
at<br /> openscriptures.org<br />and join the discussion group there."
Is anyone who is active with openscriptures.org able to comment on
this? :) I don't want to use this text if it's not correct, but if
I'm able to refer some possible volunteers to help with the work
there, I'm hoping that would be constructive? :)
Thanks all, ybic
nic... :)
ps: Manfred, I'll check in my code to SVN later today& you can check
out how I'm going to do Morph stuff. :)
pps: Thanks for your reply, Troy, it helps with what I'm doing :)
----
Nic Carter
PocketSword Developer - an iPhone Bible Study app
http://crosswire.org/pocketsword
http://itunes.apple.com/app/Pocketsword/id341046078
On 18/02/2010, at 11:05 PM, Manfred Bergmann wrote:
Hi guys.
Now, I stumbled over an issue regarding morphs while working on
MacSword:
The morph value code in the link URL data is something like this:
value=TH8804
When I set this as a key in SWModule with setKey() the correlating
text is:
"Part of speech: pronoun, relative Case: nominative Number: singular
Gender: masculine"
In the Packard module when I do an index search for this I get:
Ra Nsm:
Part of speech: pronoun, relative Case: nominative Number: singular
Gender: masculine
Rd Nsm:
Part of speech: pronoun, relative Case: nominative Number: singular
Gender: masculine
Ri Nsm:
Part of speech: pronoun, relative Case: nominative Number: singular
Gender: masculine
Rp Nsm:
Part of speech: pronoun, relative Case: nominative Number: singular
Gender: masculine
Rr Nsm:
Part of speech: pronoun, relative Case: nominative Number: singular
Gender: masculine
Rx Nsm:
Part of speech: pronoun, relative Case: nominative Number: singular
Gender: masculine
Those "Rs Nsm" etc. kind of codes are in fact the keys that we
collect in order to display them as a table of content for the user
to choose from or click on in the a dictionary view.
Now the problem is that I can't actually find a relation other than
the text itself of the key ("Ra Nsm") for the morph code of TH8804.
How do I get to "Ra Nsm" etc. for a code of TH8804 via SWORD API?
Cheers,
Manfred
Am 17.02.2010 um 18:13 schrieb Troy A. Griffitts:
Nic,
There are currently 2 primary ways frontends have implemented
strongs/morph functionality:
1) show the numbers in the text as clickable links;
2) have the word itself be a clickable link which has both
strongs/morph/other data attached.
These 2 methods usually dictate, at a lower level, 2 different methods:
1) have the lookup information embedded directly in the link, e.g.,
action=showMorph&type=Greek&value=5589
2) have the word id embedded in the link, and then do an entry
attributes lookup to obtain the relevant information, e.g.,
<span onclick="showWordData(1)">In</span>
To see the data you can obtain from entry attributes once you have
the word id, have a look at sword/examples/cmdline/lookup, e.g.,
./lookup KJV jn.1.1
Basically, what it comes down to is WHERE you want the work to
happen. All of this information comes out of entry attributes at
some point: either the filter obtains it and puts it in the link, or
your app obtains it and does what it sees fit with it.
You can see code which implement the lemma/morph/interlinear lookups
in a filter, located under
sword/bindings/corba/orbitcpp/webmgr.hpp. This Word Javascript
filter set does the lookup from entry attributes and adds a tag
around words with linguistic markup. Here is the pertinent line of
code from the filter:
text.appendFormatted("<span class=\"clk\"
onclick=\"p('%s','%s','%s','%s','%s','%s');\">", lexName.c_str(),
lemma.c_str(), wordID.c_str(), morph.c_str(), page.c_str(),
modName.c_str());
This is how swordweb does word-click lookups and shows strongs,
morph, interlinear data, etc. (page, is the image page number for
the Tregelles GNT scans).
I know this doesn't answer all of your questions, but hope it gets
you started.
Troy.
Nic Carter wrote:
Hi team :)
I'm currently implementing morphology tags at the same time as
Strong's in PocketSword& I have a question about the HTML filters.
for THML (thmlhtmlhref.cpp)
we have "passagestudy.jsp?action=showMorph&type=Greek&value=%s"
(line 178)
so, the "type" is hardcoded to "Greek".
for GBF (gbfhtmlhref.cpp)
we have "passagestudy.jsp?action=showMorph&type=Greek&value="
(line 207)
so, the "type" is hardcoded to "Greek".
for OSIS (the one we're mostly interested in now-a-days:
osishtmlhref.cpp)
we have "passagestudy.jsp?action=showMorph&type=%s&value=%s"
(line 150)
so, the "type" is variable, with an example from the KJV being:
"passagestudy.jsp?action=showMorph&type=robinson%3AN-ASN&value=N-ASN"
[note: %3A is the URL encoding of the ":" character, as this is
coming from the OSIS w tag, where morph="robinson:N-ASN" is found,
so we are simply passing through the "morph" attribute to the
"type" attribute in this html link, after running it through
URL::encode().]
http://www.crosswire.org/wiki/OSIS_Bibles#Marking_with_Morphology
is also a good place to read up on this, from an OSIS point of view.
http://n4.nabble.com/new-morphology-td354696.html#a354696 has a
previous thread about Morphology tags
http://n4.nabble.com/KJV-OT-morphology-td351093.html#a351093
mentions OT Morph tags& how they were broken back then (are they
still? if the situation is still the same today, then that may
help answer question #1& some of #2!)
http://n4.nabble.com/Fwd-GnomeSword-developers-Hebrew-WLC-Text-with-Strongs-numbers-and-Morphology-td358831.html#a358831
mentions that there was no Hebrew Morphological Analysis Codes
module as of March 2009, is that still the case? (that may also
help answer question #1?)
Given all of the above:
1) do we only support Morphology of Greek words? Looking in the
KJV (OSIS), it seems they appear in the OT (hence, also for Hebrew
words), and the "type" attribute is "strongMorph". For example,
"passagestudy.jsp?action=showMorph&type=strongMorph%3ATH8804&value=TH8804"
from Micah 1:16 (from the word "captivity", with the Strong's
Hebrew Number of 01540).
2) should the OSIS version, above, have the "type" attribute
actually being "robinson" (in the KJV example above) rather than
"robinson%3AN-ASN"? or should it instead be hard-coded to be
"Greek" like with the THML& GBF versions? I'm assuming it should
be "robinson", given that's what the OSIS module says... so I'm
guessing that the "strongMorph", found in question #1 is actually
referring to a non-public (or non-existing?) module that has the
Hebrew Morphology.
3) do other front-ends simply assume that we only call the
"showMorph" action on Greek words& hence ignore the "type"
attribute? Or do they (as I am currently thinking of doing) treat
"Greek" to use a module with "Feature=GreekParse"& showMorph
actions that start with "robinson" or "packard" to also be Greek&
anything else to be Hebrew? Or do they treat "Greek" as Greek&
anything else they parse the "type" attribute until they get to the
":"& then try to use that module, falling back to an error
dialogue if that module isn't installed?
4) I am assuming that any module with "Feature=GreekParse" in it is
able to handle Greek Morphology codes, so when we encounter a
"showMorph" with a "type" containing "robinson", do we NEED to use
the "robinson" module (which is the technically correct thing to
do) or can I allow the user to select any module they have
installed which has the "GreekParse" feature in it (the same as we
do with Strong's Numbers)? But, then, linking with question #1,
there is no equivalent for "Feature=HebrewParse"? at least, I
can't find any modules from the CrossWire or CrossWire Beta repos
with that in it?
ok, I think that's about it! I enjoy trying to figure out fun
SWORD things (well, now I do -- at first it was overwhelming, but I
was learning the SWORD APIs& the CocoaTouch APIs& Obj-C all at
the same time!), but I'd love clarification on this before I code
it :)
Thanks heaps for even reading this far. If you have read this far
and can actually understand it all, you deserve a medal& you're
probably also equipped enough to answer all my questions! ;) :)
ybic
nic... :)
----
Nic Carter
PocketSword Developer - an iPhone Bible Study app
http://crosswire.org/pocketsword
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