James,
I read your exposition with much interest.
Many years ago, I had a minor problem with WORD v 4.0
and called Microsoft software support. I was told
that V 4.0 was no longer supported and that Microsoft
was no longer responsible for maintaining that
version. I asked if there was any objection to
modifying or selling a copy of it and was told
(paraphrased): "We no longer support it and you can do
what you want with it." This was the position of
Microsoft as explained to me by an agent of Microsoft.
Several years later, I asked the wife of a Boeing
co-worker (I was working for Boeing at the time in the
Seattle area where I still live) about the
'abandon-ware.' She worked for Microsoft and
researched that question and returned the same answer.
Essentially when a company no longer supports a
product it sold to a customer, it has been abandoned
and that company has relinquished its rights to anyone
'tampering' with or reselling that product.
I do not disagree that companies such as Microsoft
will not eschew 'going after' those whom they deem to
be transgressers of their perceived property rights
but I believe they do so or will do so not out of
pique as you seem to imply but because they have a
vested and invested interest to encourage purchases of
their latest software, else it would too expensive and
distracting to go after the little user who 'plods
along' with software that was written in the stone
ages (but less than 20 years ago).
Incidentally, one of my functions at Boeing was to
track airline customer's airplanes: where were they,
who owned them, who was operating them, what are the
cumulative hours and landings on them etc. The Boeing
legal staff had concluded that Boeing had a legal
obligation to furnish support for any of its products
so long as there were at least three aiplanes flying
or certified to fly - E.G. in th ecase of the ancient
707s, as long as there were at least three 707s flying
somewhere - I.E. which airplanes still had an
operating certificate, then Boeing was obligated
legally to support those airplanes with AOG (airplane
on ground) support, spares, customer support and
design modification as required to keep the aiplanes
operational and certifiable. Perhaps this legal
requirement was mandated by Federal law; I never found
out.
Many years ago, when we were still using IBM keypunch
cards and IBM keypunch machines, the east coast (USA)
company I worked for circa 1954-1966, had three
obsolete key punch machines that IBM had discontinued
in and around 1946-1948. IBM several times offered to
replace those machine and give us at least six months
free lease/rent on the replacement machines. I was
supervisor in that department that operated those
machines and refused the replacement offer because
those machines had one function that we used and which
was not available on the later models. In fact was
had purchased one of the machines from a scrapyard and
we owned that one and had a maintenance contract with
IBM for about $5.00 a month on that one machine. The
IBM salemen and legal staff stated to me that it was
company policy and good will that gave them cause and
reason to maintain those old machines. As an aside,
these ancient key punch machines were painted black
(the old IBM color) and IBM offered several times to
repaint them blue which I refused; I rather liked
black in a sea of blue. Finally, IBM executives,
being of a sounder mind (apparently) when compared to
their later day Microsoft counterparts, began to take
pride in these last relics still painted black and
everyso often some IBM executives from upstate New
York, wouold pay us a visit to see for themeselves
these black relics of a past age.
So don't you think that it would be silly for
Microsoft to risk getting a black eye in this age of
bloggers to hassle some 'poor wretch' (such as myself)
who insisted and still insists on using hopelessly
obsolete software and has the temerity to buy and sell
such software? Well maybe, but there are a lot of us
who would make for a vigorous defense, and many who
would do so Pro Se as I would (and have).
-:)
Mel
--- James Wages <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> On 9/5/05 1:15 AM, "Mel" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > obsolete software (E.G. selling or
> > using WORD v 2 or 3 or 4 or 5; selling or using
> EXCEL
> > v 2.2, 3. 4. etc)
>
> In the case of large corporations that are still
> around (like Adobe, MS,
> etc.), I would steer clear of swapping that software
> under the label of
> abandonware. These firms like to pounce because
> they have nothing better to
> do. And MS still sells software under than name
> "Excel" and "Word"
> (regardless of whether the current versions are
> incompatible with 68k Macs).
>
> My definition of "abandonware" encompasses software
> that is "obsolete" (more
> than 10 years old) and is no longer
> sold/supported/managed/watched-after by
> any owner. It's my contention that abandonware
> should be legal for small
> communities of "obsolete" computer users to tap, as
> a last resort.
>
> With that said, keep in mind that sometimes
> companies come along a purchase
> "rights" to old software from companies that go
> insolvent, and they then
> kill the technology (for, in my opinion, "foolish
> business reasons"). Most
> of these companies couldn't care less about the
> technology, which again,
> doesn't make a bit of sense (I say this as a
> business owner who would never
> do something so stupid). Other companies may buy
> the technology so they can
> rework it to re-sell in a different form (like
> making the technology work on
> cell phones and the like), but those companies are a
> minority.
>
> If you're looking for old software, it's best to try
> to buy ("re-license") a
> copy off EBAY. But again, you risk buying junk
> because many floppies have
> bad blocks now (20 years after they were made).
> However, you could gain
> some "sentimental value" in having the original
> disks and manuals.
>
> You may also want to write some companies, if they
> are still around, and see
> if they will help meet your need. It's a long shot,
> but its ethically
> proper to try that.
>
> A final approach is to "google" the term
> "abandonware" and tap that resource
> as a last resort.
>
> Another important fact to consider is that many Mac
> users are just like me
> -- you owned a Mac 128k back in '84 and you bought a
> lot of software that
> went bad over time. For many years I didn't have a
> hard drive because they
> were too expensive. And some of the software I
> bought was copy protected,
> so I couldn't make backups (even with Copy II Mac).
> And so the floppies
> went bad, and now I can't use the software, and the
> original company who
> once sold/supported it went bankrupt years ago!
>
> In such a case, online abandonware resources can
> come in handy. You've
> already paid for the software anyway; and while the
> legal-beagles will argue
> with me on this point, the fact is, "obtaining a
> refurbished copy" of what
> you've already paid for is within the realm of "good
> ethics, good morals"
> and *should be* legal under "fair use rights."
>
> But again, "mammon" rules the world. And big
> corporations have lots of
> that. And in the eyes of the law, the little people
> with little cash
> usually get the shaft in terms of the law. Another
> complication is "what
> law?" You may not live in Canada or the US, so it
> may be perfectly legal
> for you to download "abandonware."
>
> In conclusion, please keep in mind that this
> discussion should never
> encourage outright pirating of software that is
> still sold and supported.
> But it should work to stimulate some real thought on
> the issue of
> "abandonware." Certainly, I would much rather *USE*
> my System 6 Mac than
> spend all day talking about whether its morally,
> ethically or legally wrong
> for me to refurbish my original copy of MacAttack
> from an abandonware site!
> The primary aim here is to keep the classic Mac
> community alive and kicking.
> That's what it's all about.
>
> Best,
>
> James Wages
>
>
>
>
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