now make sure that all QA-tools and editors/validators follow those rules. I fear that otherwise we will keep seeing noexit tags that are used incorrectly.
On Tue, Apr 8, 2014 at 6:38 PM, André Pirard <[email protected]>wrote: > Hi, > > A problem raised in 2013-12 on talk-be regarding the error with sign > F45<http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Road_signs_in_Belgium#F45>that nobody > corrected. > I finally did it. > I had brought the subject to Tagging and it reached a consensus with > Georg's message which I quote below. But nobody changed the wiki > accordingly, which I just finally did too. > > 1. noexit cannot be used on ways because that does not show what end > "cannot pass" > 2. noexit is unsuitable for full routing because it does not apply to > a particular means of transport (unlike a hypothetic bicycle=noexit) > 3. a noexit like tag is unnecessary for routing; routing has got all > it takes > 4. noexit is used to draw the attention of sanity checks on the > validity of the tagging > 5. it could also highlight the no-passing condition when it's barely > visible on the map, but if it were rendered > 6. there is no need to tag each and every "noexit"; we're not > dressing a Xmas tree. > > The wiki should be carefully looked after indeed. > > Cheers, > > André. > On 2013-12-03 15:41, Georg Feddern wrote : > > Am 03.12.2013 14:48, schrieb André Pirard: > > > > I agree to: > This tag is > - not necessary for routing > - senseless on ways > - only useful on nodes (the last one, where no other way is connected) > > The wiki should be changed, especially the use on ways should be removed. > > > But I do not agree to > > > I doubt very much that this tags helps anybody or any quality-check > program to understand anything. A note should suffice, and I think the best > option would be to remove that confusing tag. > > > It is useful for quality-check programs to determine "This is not a > missing connection to nearby ways". (false positives) > A note would have to be clear and machine-readable for this case. > > It might be useful for renderers as on a map it might look as a connection > (because of oversize of rendered ways). > But this could be determined by preprocessing also. > > Georg > > > > On 2014-04-08 13:33, Marc Gemis wrote : > > I tagged noexit=yes on the ways. > > Why ? If I remember correctly some more experienced mapper told me it was > ok to do so. > And perhaps I read the wiki page before June 28, 2011, when there was > nothing mentioned about way or node. > > You cannot assume each mapper reads all wiki pages every week or follow > the tagging mailing list to keep up-to-date with the changing definitions > of tags. > > Another reason is that, as Pieren pointed out, many features are mapped > on the way, not on a single point. > And yet another reason is that the OSM definition is different from the > traffic code definition, where noexit is placed on each street where cars > cannot leave the street via another exit. > So people might just tag it without reading the wiki at all. > > The tag info on the wiki page shows enough usages on ways to make it a > viable tagging method. > > Enough reasons why people might tag this incorrectly according to the > current wiki definition ? :-) > > > regards > > m > > > On Tue, Apr 8, 2014 at 12:57 PM, fly <[email protected]> wrote: > >> On 08.04.2014 12:10, Pieren wrote: >> > On Sun, Apr 6, 2014 at 3:48 AM, fly <[email protected]> wrote: >> >> >> noexit=yes has nothing in common with the traffic_sign as: >> >> >> >> 1. it only is about motorized traffic where noexit=yes is about every >> >> travel mode. >> >> 2. it is used at the beginning of a cul-de-sac and an information for >> >> driver of motorized vehicles where noexit=yes is always tagged on the >> >> end node of a way without any connection and is a hint for mappers and >> >> QA tools. >> >> >> >> Please, do not mix it up. >> > >> > Please, return to earth. Tagging traffic signs is just a funny >> > activity in fully mapped areas. How do you specify a speed limit in >> > OSM ? with a "traffic_sign" tag on a node or primarily with the >> > "maxspeed" on the way ? I could repeat the same question for many >> > other features. >> >> Do not know if you speak german, but one person did tell us that she/he >> is mapping the traffic_signs as addition one the ways on talk-de@osm [1]. >> >> > I'm still waiting some clear explanation about the difference of a >> > "noexit" and a "cul-de-sac". >> >> You find quite some differences, if you read the mails carefully. >> >> The major points in my view are: >> * We do not need to tag cul-de-sac as defined by the traffic_sign. This >> information is available through geometry and/or access tags. >> * The traffic_sign is always about motorized vehicles but we map for all >> traffic modes. noexit=yes is wrong as soon as there is any connected >> highway. >> >> One way to manifest the difference is to only tag it on nodes and not on >> ways. >> >> > Once you understand there is no >> > difference, you understand why 40% of the noexit tags are on ways .... >> > When you have this huge gap between the wiki definition limiting the >> > tag on the last node and the real contributors behaviour, you should >> > ask if the wiki makes sense but not blaim the contributors. >> >> No one did blame anyone. I only tried to find the reasons for this >> misunderstanding and one was definitely the wiki page which is still not >> perfect but did get some updates the last days. Some other pages where >> updated, too. >> >> > Note that for QA tools, the tag on the last node or on the way itself >> > are both technically easy to support. >> >> Sure, but overall it makes it more difficult and how should this work >> with splitting ways ? Could you please point me to one editor which >> properly works with splitting a way tagged with noexit=yes or don't you >> think that it is wrong that after the split both parts are tagged with it >> ? >> >> We could simply deprecate noexit=* and replace it with note=noexit but I >> am not sure if this solves our problem and tools need to support strings >> and multivalues as noexit might not be the only word of the note=* tag. >> >> >> fly >> >> [1] >> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/talk-de/2014-April/107967.html >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Tagging mailing list >> [email protected] >> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging >> > > > > _______________________________________________ > Tagging mailing > [email protected]https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging > > > > _______________________________________________ > Tagging mailing list > [email protected] > https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging > >
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