On 06-Jul-17 07:33 PM, Martin Koppenhoefer wrote:
Currently (but also since almost the beginning), the definitions of
office in the wiki [1] are 2:
- short: "A place of business, similar to shops"
- longer: "A place predominantly selling services. These may range
from the obvious services such as accountants and lawyers."
These definitions are not nearly suitable for someone to understand
what the tag is about, e.g. they would comprise car repairs as well as
haircutters, banks, etc, and they don't help distinguishing the key
from others like shop.
The documented values contain quite some things that don't fit either
(or only partially) definition:
- association
- charity
- educational_institution
- employment_agency
Some people (the public) go to employment agencies to seek employment.
- forestry
- foundation (well, it might depend)
- government
Some people go to government offices to seek things like driving
licences, passports.
- newspaper (ok, might be disputable)
Yep. Some go to place advertisements, reprints of old editions/photos
- ngo
- political_party
- quango
- religion (disputable)
- tax (as it is explicitly about fiscal authorities and revenue
offices, not about consultants/tax advisors)
none of them (or only exceptionally) is _selling_ services. The common
denominator is that these places are administrative workplaces, not
selling goods (at least not primarily).
I suggest we change the definition.
E.g.
short: an administrative workplace
longer: An administrative workplace, predominantly not selling goods,
and not primarily facing to the public. These may range from the
obvious services, such as architects, accountants and lawyers, to
government and ngo offices, etc..
With some reluctance I added the "not facing to the public" (maybe
this is not correct English btw?
Umm "not servicing the public" would be better .. but the meaning is
clear, so don't worry about it.
) because these would/should be "amenity". E.g. there can be an
office=bank for the (internal) bank administration and an amenity=bank
for the places where clients go. Admittedly this distinction isn't
(yet?) completely realized in current tagging, and I'm not sure if it
should be there.
Comments?
1) Everything is an amenity to someone! Highways are amenities, yet
they have a more specific key. Office and shop keys now exits to more
specifically tag these things.
2) The amenity key is old. Some view it as the 'miscellaneous' key - a
place to put things that don't fit anywhere else.
3) Many OSM keys and OSM values never went through the tagging group ..
and possibly could be better if they had.
4) Most lawyers offices here serve the public. Law Society of NSW lists
lawyers that serve the public
https://www.lawsociety.com.au/community/findingalawyer/
5) At least some government offices here serve the public. e.g NSW
government service centres for the public
https://www.service.nsw.gov.au/service-centre/service-nsw/2000 (you
need to type in a postcode to see other areas - anything between 2000
and 2999 might do)
'Offices' that don't serve the public? I assume this is similar to your
bank example - where the 'office' is set up to serve the operators
internal requirements?
Do those need to be mapped in OSM? Consider that they are of no interest
to the vast majority of map users? If mapped at all they should have an
access restriction on them.
Other offices that I think do serve the public? Guides, tourist,
financial advisor, heath insurance, real estate, tax advisor, travel
agent...
Dictionary definition of an office? Humm Oxford Dictionary gives
Origin: Middle English: via Old French from Latin officium ‘performance
of a task’ (in medieval Latin also ‘office, divine service’), based on
opus ‘work’ + facere ‘do’.
Noun: definition 1: A room, set of rooms, or building used as a place of
business for non-manual work.
The other definitions don't apply to what is being discussed.
So OSM definition ? "A place (building or room/s) where a non-manual,
non-goods service is provided." ???
Is that understandable?
------------------
What is a manual service? A panel beater for car smash repairs, a
hairdresser .. I'd put these as shops.
But it is a close call, I think that the physical modification is what
swings it for me.
Things that are in office that should not be there?
The medical stuff - therapists etc, they should be under the healthcare
key system?
-------------------
Humm there are 'offices' that don't fit for me.
I do go to forestry offices for advice on camping there (allowed in this
country at least .. but not when they are logging/planting obviously).
They also have good maps .. I do like maps.
However of little to no interest to me;
Political party offices .. well that would be like trade union offices
.. only those interested go there. But they are still members of the
public .. and even non members can go there - so open to the public.
I think the same holds true for the rest of the list .. it is possible
for the public to go there for something that they want.
So I can see others wanting to map them.
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