François, > > This is nevertheless not related to the geospacial nor relational database > type but it's localisation issues.
On one hand you are right, on the other hand how can you call OSM a database if you cannot perform such simple tasks with it like getting a list of for example lakes within a specific country? You search for water=lake but you get results which differ a lot from what is locally called a "lake". Is there any approach which resolves this thing? Regards, Eugene ср, 5 дек. 2018 г. в 20:40, François Lacombe <[email protected]>: > Thanks Eugene, > > That's a good example and I agree with you. > This is nevertheless not related to the geospacial nor relational database > type but it's localisation issues. > > Then I'm ok with you regarding name tags, it's hard to maintain at world > scale and is often cluttered with specific local terms > > All the best > > François > > Le mer. 5 déc. 2018 à 18:35, Eugene Podshivalov <[email protected]> a > écrit : > >> Hi François, >> I guess you come from France, so let's me try to get some example >> applicable to your location. >> I do not know much about edicuation system in France but found out from >> wiki that your school system consists of "ecole maternelle", "ecole >> elementaire", "college" and "lycee". >> How do you get all colleges in France from OSM database? amanity=college >> tag which stands for a higher than university institution will not help you >> here, will it? You defintely need some other tag for you local >> categorizaiton of schools or you search by the respective word in the >> "name" tag but the "name" tag does not always contain a category name. >> >> Regards, >> Eugene >> >> ср, 5 дек. 2018 г. в 19:32, François Lacombe <[email protected]>: >> >>> Hi Eugene, >>> >>> I don't get the link between geospatial db or not and the difficulties >>> regarding the local side of tagging. >>> The same issues can raise on geospatial db as well don't you ? >>> >>> All the best >>> >>> François >>> >>> Le mer. 5 déc. 2018 à 16:50, Eugene Podshivalov <[email protected]> a >>> écrit : >>> >>>> This email is a forward message of this forum topic >>>> https://forum.openstreetmap.org/viewtopic.php?id=64704 >>>> >>>> I guess this topic has been raised may times already but let me add to >>>> it. >>>> Right now OSM is a collection of dots and lines with some generic tags >>>> for rendering them on a map. They do compile into nice maps but does it >>>> really work when it comes to searching for objects of real life categories? >>>> Let's look into some examples. >>>> * place=city/town/village/hamlet/isolated_dwelling stand for >>>> settlements of some pupulation ranges. But each country has its own >>>> categorization of settlements which may absolutely differ from the >>>> suggested gradation. >>>> * waterway=river/stream are used for natural relatively large or small >>>> waterways. But the notion of river may differ from country to country and >>>> they may have a much wider range of categories then just these two ones. >>>> * amenity=school/university/college have some generic notion of >>>> secondary, higher and further edicution institutions. But again each >>>> country has it's own categorization of educational institutions and in some >>>> cases it even contradicts the suggested tag names, e.g. in Russia they have >>>> colleges as something intermediate between high school and university. >>>> >>>> To wrap it up it is hard to impossible to get objects of some real live >>>> category from OSM database in order for example to hight light them on a >>>> map or to list them in search results. >>>> >>>> There are two workarounds used right now. The first one is to bind some >>>> new tags to local categories e.g. school=high_school, school=college. This >>>> approach is very contradictary because it is recognized only locally and >>>> may conflict with notations in other countries. >>>> The second one is to put category name into "name" tag, e.g. "Liberty >>>> avenue", "Blue lake", "South park". This approach works pretty fine until >>>> you think of applying it to everything, e.g. "Manchester" would become >>>> "Manchester city", all shops would become "[name] shop" and will be >>>> rendered as such on maps or otherwise additional algorithms will need to be >>>> coded for rederers to decide whether to cut a category name from the >>>> displayed name or not for each particular country. >>>> >>>> I invision the following solution here. >>>> * First of all, the "name" tag should containt proper name only. >>>> * Secondly, introduce a new tag for the real life language specific >>>> category name. I know that "name:prefix/postfix" key was originally >>>> introduced for another purpose but it can be a candidate here as well. Note >>>> that in some languages the place of category name relative to the proper >>>> name matters. >>>> * Thirdly, in order to make the life of renderers simple, introduce one >>>> more tag for holding the name which can be displayed on maps as is without >>>> any modifications, e.g. "display_name". This tag may contain whatever >>>> content is considered locally appropriate specifically for rendering on >>>> maps. For example, it may contain proper name with category abbriviation >>>> like "r. Missisipi" or proper name with category full name like "Liberty >>>> avenue" or if an object has no proper name but is worth being labeled like >>>> "police station". Locally agreed upon rules should prevail here and if >>>> somebody needs another format he is free to utilize "name" and >>>> "name:prefix" tags the way he likes it. >>>> If proper name is considered good for rendering without any >>>> modifications like "Manchester" city then display_name can be missing. >>>> >>>> Here are a couple of collective examples: >>>> * highway=residential + name:ru=Независимости + name:prefix:ru=проспект >>>> + display_name:ru="пр-т Независимости" >>>> * waterway=river + name:de=Elbe + name:prefix:de=Fluß (no >>>> "display_name" tag becase they usually display only proper names of rivers >>>> on maps in Germany) >>>> * place=city + name:en=Manchester (no "display_name" tag because it is >>>> equal to "name", and no "name:prefix" tag if and only if the values in >>>> "place" tag correspond to the real life settlement categories in US) >>>> >>>> Regards, >>>> Eugene P >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Tagging mailing list >>>> [email protected] >>>> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging >>>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Tagging mailing list >>> [email protected] >>> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging >>> >> _______________________________________________ >> Tagging mailing list >> [email protected] >> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging >> > _______________________________________________ > Tagging mailing list > [email protected] > https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging >
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