On 03/08/19 11:19, Joseph Eisenberg wrote:
Yes, the only thing that needs to be changed is the documentation, in
my opinion. We don't need more tags, and it's not even necessary to
officially "deprecate" anything.
Right now some pages suggest that a bus stop needs to be tagged
highway=bus_stop + public_transport=platform + bus=yes at the location
passengers wait, and that you also need a
public_transport=stop_position + bus=yes next to this point (on the
highway), and a type=public_transport relation with *=stop_area, which
includes the 2 features, and maybe they all need a name or ref? Oh,
and you need to make a type=route relation which includes at least one
of these features, or maybe all of them, in addition to highway ways?
That's 3 features with at least 10 tags, to define a simple bus stop,
before you even make the route relation.
But really all we need is highway=bus_stop + name=* or ref=* - 2 tags,
to define a bus stop. And the route relation needs either the stops or
the highways added (you could add both, but this isn't really
necessary), plus maybe a ref, duration and interval, if known.
The relation needs both stops and ways.
Not every stop along a route may be used by service.
The simplest way that a router finds between 2 stops may not be the service
route.
The stops don't need a name or ref .. but they could be handy.
The route relation does not need an operator, a name etc... but the name would
be appreciated, and other tags could be handy too.
More
complex tagging is only helpful at interchange stations - and maybe it
isn't even necessary there, if the routing application is developed
well.
It would be nice if we could present this situation as the recommended
and sufficient method for mapping bus routes - which are by far the
most common type of fixed-route public transport globally - especially
for new mappers.
The public_transport=* tags would still exist and still would be
documented clearly on their own wiki pages, but the main features
lists and the page Public Transport could make it clear that these are
optional, not required.
On 8/3/19, Daniel Koć <daniel@koć.pl> wrote:
W dniu 03.08.2019 o 02:28, Joseph Eisenberg pisze:
Consider also how you would route someone from a amenity=cafe node in
a building to a shop=* area in another building across the city, by
car. You have to jump from the node to the nearest highway, follow the
highways to the other side of the city, and then jump back to the
other node. So any router than can handle automobile directions can
also manage bus stops or tram stops or platforms at the side of the
road, without needing anything other than highway or railway ways and
platform or bus stop nodes.
I guess this is the example where this simple analogy fails:
https://www.openstreetmap.org/node/334559271
The route for personal journey might be undefined on the ends (drivers
just use their eyes there), public transport routing is more strict.
I wasn't able to understand enough of the link about updating transit
features in Warsaw to see how the stop_position nodes were useful. I
understand that some transit agencies provide data about stop
positions, and that's the original reason that the stop_position nodes
were created. There's no problem with keeping them in your city if you
like them, but probably we shouldn't tell new mappers that they are
needed, for example in developing cities around the world that
currently lack any bus stops.
Sorry for asking, but you probably know this documentation quite good -
do we really tell people that every element of a public transport stop
is needed just because it's documented somewhere?
The complexity of the current system, as described on the main pages
in the wiki, can discourage mapping anything (for example, I've been
discouraged from trying to add any of the minibus routes in my part of
Indonesia, since it seemed so complicated to make so many features and
routes).
So maybe documentation should be just cleaned? And if I understand you
wrong, could you describe what was your problem there?
--
"Pojechałam truizmem, ale mogę, bo jestem trochę pierdołą" [P. Potocka]
_______________________________________________
Tagging mailing list
Tagging@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
