Hello, Just a bump here to see if anyone has opinions about tagging for infrastructure allowing for two-stage bicycle turns. Please see original message quoted below for more details.
I'm currently thinking of using the following: - relation with tag type=bicycle_two_stage_turn (comments on this particularly welcome! it doesn't really seem to be a route=bicycle since it doesn't have a designated network=*?) - optionally segregated=yes if there is a designated, separated waiting area for the bikes rather than only a painted area that is also driven over by other vehicles (would usually be at particularly wide intersections or at T-intersections) - members as in a turn restriction relation: `from` and `to` ways, and `via` either node or way Comments most welcome! If there are no comments here, I suppose I will create a tagging proposal on wiki in a couple of days. Thanks, --Jarek On Mon, 16 Dec 2019 at 20:05, Jarek Piórkowski <[email protected]> wrote: > > Hello, > > I'm looking for a way to tag designated areas where cyclists wait to > safely make a far turn (in right-hand-drive regions, a left turn). > I'll call them "left turn boxes" for short though pointers to a better > name would be welcome! > > They're paint-designated places for cyclists to wait to do a two-stage > left turn from the right edge of the roadway. In regions that allow > right turn on red traffic signal, they are usually coupled with > no-right-turn-on-red restrictions. See for example > https://bin.piorkowski.ca/2019/two_stage_left_turn.png - screenshot of > Esri imagery for https://osm.org/node/25813496 at > 43.6670781,-79.3746698 > > To my understanding, this is not the same as a cycleway=asl (advanced > stop line, "bike box") in OSM as an ASL is _behind_ the stop line and > behind the pedestrian crossing, and thus not really easily usable for > left turns - cyclists would have to cross the stream of pedestrians to > get into the box. > > I am aware that in many regions left turn boxes are common to the > point of being basically the default at bigger intersections, and thus > doesn't really need tagging. However, the area I'm mapping has > probably a single digit amount of them. As they make left turns a lot > safer, I would like to map them so that routers can prefer them. > > Does anyone know of an established way to tag these that I could adopt? > > To tag unambiguously and in a computer-readable way, I guess it'll > need a relation from-to-via? > > Previously discussed in OSM Canada Slack, #general channel on October > 16, 2019 > https://osm-ca.slack.com/archives/C36U69X18/p1571266663002600?thread_ts=1571265183.002300&cid=C36U69X18 > but we didn't come up with much. Looking for an alternatives to a > relation, I came up with > https://bin.piorkowski.ca/2019/possible_asl_node_tagging.png and > described it as following: "I suppose something like this could work > to avoid a relation, routers would then have to look for > cycleway:asl=two_stage_left_turn a little to the right of where they'd > like to make a left turn. Advantages: no relations - they seem to be > somewhat disliked in OSM; representation as turn-right-then-U-turn is > somewhat like how cyclists are used to turning left at hostile > intersections. Disadvantages: the portrayed distance to turn off to > right is further than the actual distance; routers might well find it > easier to find left turns as they would normally and then prioritize > those with a bicycle_two_stage_left_turn relation" > > But frankly I don't really like that solution much, and the other > editor contributing in the Slack thread thought it would be > "misleading, since the box is on a way not actually involved in the > turn". > > Thanks for any leads! > > --Jarek _______________________________________________ Tagging mailing list [email protected] https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
