On Wed, 4 Nov 2020 at 20:50, Tom Pfeifer <t.pfei...@computer.org> wrote:
> I was surprised that this tag is rushed into voting despite the arguments > against it even here in the tagging list discussions. > The proposal itself contains paragraphs indicating it is a work in progress rather than a finished proposal. I would have commented but the wiki is using a black-hole service that has blocked a large chunk of addresses belonging to my mobile network because some open proxies were detected. This is not really ideal for a mobile service where IP addresses are very volatile. > > Let's summarize the criticism first, and look into the alternative > "mourning room" > Not in current use in British English. And even when it was used, it generally referred to the room in a house that we now call the "living room." See https://www.vintag.es/2018/01/living-room-what-we-call-today-was.html Also not really suited to a large, dedicated building with more than one room for this purpose. It's that "room" bit that is the problem. * Vollis (the proposer) 18 Sep: ""chapel" will be opposed by some for being > religiously connotated" > He was correct. But it's rare for a proposal to get unanimous approval. > > * Peter Elderson 21 Sep: "I have heard mourning chapel, mourning room, > funeral chapel, funeral room. > Chapel of rest does not seem right to me" > As I understand it, English (British, American or any other variety) is not Peter's first language. > > * Clifford Snow 24 Sep: "Chapel of Rest" sounds to me more like a > marketing term not something we should be using in OSM. > What something "sounds like" to an individual is not a strong determinant of its propriety. > > * Michael Patrick 24 Sep: 'Chapel of Rest' seems to be a dated UK specific > term. It's what they're known as in my part of the UK. So still contemporary in at least parts of the UK. > ... The euphemistic 'Chapel of Rest' is more generically known as 'Viewing > /Visitation Service', > "amenity=visitatation_service" makes even less semantic sense than "amenity=mourning_room." It's not a term I've encountered, anyway. > * 27 Sep: 'Chapel of Rest' seems to be one of those terms like 'Take the > goat to the butcher... > That sentence no sense makes. > * 28 Sep: since OSM is an international project, my practice is to make it > as easy as possible for non-native English users. > That is why editors have translations of their presets. > > Indeed, the proposed value contains 'chapel' which is biased to christian > religion. It might be used in British English, however that is biased itself for > having > Christianity as a cultural background. > Congratulations. You have successfully argued that we must change from using British English to the language of a country which has no religious cultural background whatsoever. Offhand, I can't think of such a country but why should that stop us? "Chapel of rest" is an euphemism that avoids death-related terminology, > butmight be mistaken for a chapel where somebody could rest along a hiking > or pilgrim route. Except that the correct name for such a chapel is "chapel of ease" not "chapel of rest." > OSM is a map for the whole world, and it does not improve acceptance when > a bunch of old white males (such as myself) chose a biased term for a > feature > that naturally exists in other cultural/religious contexts as well. Do other religions have such places? If so, what do they call them? And can we then abstract a neutral name from that? > To close with an alternative, "mourning room" would be a neutral > alternative from my perspective, reflecting the process of mourning which I > suppose exists in all cultures. > I object to room being applied to a building which may have many such rooms. I'd have less of a problem with amenity=mourning. -- Paul
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