I want to address the points that were raised on crossings. As we already have highway=crossing, I have resisted adding new hazard=* values for crossing hazards, as that is properly the domain of the highway=crossing tag. For golf cart crossing, there is already an established tag combination highway=crossing + golf_cart=yes. This was already described on the wiki page for golf_cart, and I edited the wiki page for highway=crossing to match this.
Considering this, I've updated the text on hazard=bicycle to reflect that it is specifically about the hazard of cyclists in the roadway, and not for bicycle crossings, which also has its own existing tagging. This leaves hazard=school_crossing as the sole remaining "crossing" hazard. There are only a few usages of it, and I am leaning strongly towards removing from the proposal entirely as it seems that a school crossing belongs more properly within the scope of highway=crossing. Lastly, the specific case of hazard=low_flying_aircraft is not a crossing hazard, as the hazard is a distraction to motorists or perhaps jetwash rather than collision, as with a crossing. The only actual "airplane crossing" that I am aware of is the case of the Gibraltar airport which has a road that crosses the airport runway. However, this is an exceptionally rare case, and in any case, it too would belong under highway=crossing. On Sat, Dec 5, 2020 at 12:43 PM Volker Schmidt <vosc...@gmail.com> wrote: > Hi, > I have been following this proposal with interest. I often have tried to > tag hazards, and not found a good ways of doing it. > We are now compiling a long list of hazards, including golf players > crossing the road, but I see some basic aspects which are not being > addressed (unless I missed something): > > I would like to see signposted hazards completely separately tagged from > hazards that the mapper perceives in a place, but which are not signed. > > Signed hazards should be mapped. > > - on nodes, if the extension of the hazard is point-like (example: > dangerous railway crossing) > - on ways, if the hazard exists along a highway (example: animals > crossing zones) > - (possibly) on areas, if the hazard is present in an area (example: > landslides) > > In the case of signed hazards, I see two alternative ways of tagging the > signing: > > - (only for nodes and ways highway segments) by adding source:xxx=sign > like we do with speed limits > - by mapping the relative signs as nodes > > Insertion of signposted hazards do not require any assessment of the > presence of the hazard by the mapper. > > Signposted hazards are most often signalling dangers for vehicle drivers. > Let's take the sign for hazard=cyclists (crossing), which warns clearly the > vehicle drivers on the carriageway, that there could be cyclists crossing. > There is normally no such warning on the crossing cyclists' path. > There are exceptions of hazard warnings for both parties like a "cyclists > sharing the road" sign, but that's the only one that comes to mind. > > Another aspect that should be defined: Are writings or pictograms on the > road surface equivalent to vertical traffic signs? > > > A completely different story are unsigned hazards with no signs on the > ground, i.e. situations perceived as a hazard by the mapper. > These are the tricky ones. I map cycling infrastructure, hence my examples > come from that perspective. > Examples: > > - foot-cycle crosswalks where there is a sign-posted speed limit of > 30km/h, but where 90% of the cars pass with speeds far exceeding that value > and making the place really dangerous > - a two-way cycle path that is parallel to a main road and crosses a > side road with a foot.bicycle crosswalk - car drivers entering the side > road regularly overlook cyclists which ride in the same direction as they > drive (to my knowledge the major cause of cyclists being killed in many > countries. These in most cases in my part of the world have no danger > signs. > - And now consider the same situation with a row of trees between the > cycle path and the main carriage way. > - In my part of the world authorities put all kinds of bollards, > arches, chicanes on cycleways (supposedly for the safety of cyclists, but > in reality to keep car drivers from parking there). Many of these are grey > metal objects that become invisible at night even if you have a good cycle > light, as they have no reflective markers on them. > > The problem here is that the tagging will be based on my perceived version > of ground truth. If I am a cyclist, I may be good at spotting hazards for > cyclists. If I am a horse rider I will be good at mapping hazards for horse > riders. > > Then we have also the asymmetric situations: e.g. car drivers are warned > by a sign that there will be cyclists crossing, but the (bigger) hazard of > cars hitting the cyclists on the same crossing is not signposted for > cyclists. > > Volker > > > On Sat, 5 Dec 2020 at 17:05, ael via Tagging <tagging@openstreetmap.org> > wrote: > >> On Fri, Dec 04, 2020 at 09:48:27PM +0000, Paul Allen wrote: >> > On Fri, 4 Dec 2020 at 19:56, Martin Koppenhoefer < >> dieterdre...@gmail.com> >> > wrote: >> > >> > Up until around ten years ago, a minor road went past the end of the >> > runway at what passes for an airport. The planes could be so low on >> > approach to the runway that there were traffic signals to prevent >> > vehicles crossing the path of an aircraft. There were also signs >> > warning of low-flying aircraft, which I referred to as "Give way >> > to aircraft." >> >> Also at much larger airports. Brize Norton >> (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RAF_Brize_Norton), for example. >> >> https://www.openstreetmap.org/node/190194553 for one of the traffic >> lights. >> >> ael >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Tagging mailing list >> Tagging@openstreetmap.org >> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging >> > _______________________________________________ > Tagging mailing list > Tagging@openstreetmap.org > https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging >
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