Hi everyone, Thank you allready for all the input. Special thanks to Marc and Jez for their suggestions and questions. I would like to clear up some things:
We have been in contact with Wheelmap. They are using the tag wheelchair=yes/no, but with On Wheels we have a different approach. We measure objective data about the entrance and toilet of a building. Wheelchair users can set a personal profile in our app to indicate what the dimension is of their wheelchair and the kerb height they can cross. This way the user decides for themselves what accessible is. Just adding a wheelchair=yes/no tag to an entrance or toilet is not enough. Everyone wheelchair user has different dimensions and possibilities. Even toilets and parking spaces that are marked as wheelchair accessible are not accessible for everyone. We also believe that our data about dimension of entrances, parking places, toilets and elevators could be interesting for other applications. We know it is a long list of new tags. What is the best way to make it more easy to discuss? I make an email with all new tag suggestions organized into groups (entrance, parking, toilet, elevator, ...) or an email per group of tag questions. So one for entrance, one for toilet, .... ? Met vriendelijke groeten Robin Julien Operationeel verantwoordelijke, architect [email protected] tel: 0497 65 48 50 Message: 2 Date: Thu, 4 May 2023 10:31:56 +0100 From: Jez Nicholson <[email protected]> To: "Tag discussion, strategy and related tools" <[email protected]> Subject: Re: [Tagging] Help with new tags about wheelchair accessibility for On Wheels app Message-ID: <CALBgsijQ+5aSS7Pm-U09tFqt1K8c=wuhtqpy5t_j0lprv_u...@mail.gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Hi Robin, Are you in communication with WheelApp? Obviously they don't have an exclusive on wheelchair mapping, but they will have a lot of experience with OSM accessibility tagging and might be able to help. There may be a niche Discord channel or something about it. - Jez ------------------------------ Message: 6 Date: Wed, 3 May 2023 10:22:46 +0200 From: Marc_marc <[email protected]> To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [Tagging] Help with new tags about wheelchair accessibility for On Wheels app Message-ID: <[email protected]> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Hello, Le 02.05.23 ? 17:34, [email protected] a ?crit?: > We want to add these tags: I find the list too big to digest in one go, so I'll note a few tags that seem clearly ok and some tags that clearly don't seem ok the others, between the 2, deserve in my opinion to be treated out of this mass to avoid to avoid having too long discussions on too many tags in a single subject, which may make it indigestible > * entrance:ramp:wheelchair?????????? ?????????????? (for a ramp at the > entrance) I find this tag too specific: the ramp can often be used by old people, parents with a baby carriage, a person with difficulty walking or even by a person with no difficulty there is the entrance:ramp tag which combined with wheelchair describes in my opinion the accessibility well without having to describe the same object with at least 4 different tags > * parking:sensor_ID??????????? ?????????????? ?????????????? (for the > ID of a IOT Communithings sensor in a parking place) if it's the ref of something, use ref:*, maybe ref:parking:sensor_ID or ref:sensor_ID on the amenity=parking it would be very useful to make a documentation page on what it is, how to get it, how a contributor who is not a wheelchair user can detect it, so that there can be other users than those of your app > * entrance:kerb:height???????????????????? ?????????????? (for the > height of the kerb at the entrance) ok (in meter or add unit for ex 5 cm) > * entrance:door:width?????? ?????????????? ?????????????? (for the > door width of the entrance) why not entrance:width ? (entrance without door exist, for ex when the door itself is not at the building outer but after an covered area sometimes it's not a door but a bay, overspecific tag seems uninteresting to me for the datause > * entrance:step_count?????? ?????????????? ?????????????? (for the > number of steps at the entrance) ok (i'm using it myself :) with entrance:step:height > * entrance:turn_point??????? ?????????????? ?????????????? (for free > space to turn at both sides of the entrance) if the space is not enought, isn't it better to put entrance:wheelchair=no? > * atm:wheelchair??????????????? ?????????????? ?????????????? (for > wheelchair accessible yes or no) ok but I prefer to create an object amenity=atm + wheelchair=* > * reception_desk:wheelchair????????? ?????????????? (for wheelchair > accessible yes or no) ok > * toilets:wheelchair no need to ask, it's an in use tag :) > * toilets:wheelchair:accessible_by?????????????? (to indicate if a > wheelchair toilet is accessible by stairs, lift or groundfloor) groundfloor -> level=0 I don't really understand the need to describe the pathway and above all I fear that it will end up adding accessible_by everywhere (how accessible is the parking ? how accessible is the shop ? ) which on their own don't mean anything (toilets on the ground floor can be wheelchair=no, accessible_by=stairs can be wheelchair=yes if the staircase has a motorized wheelchair platform. > * toilets:accessible_by??????????????????????????????????? (to > indicate if a normal toilet is accessible by stairs, lift or > groundfloor) same as before > * toilets:wheelchair:space_side??????????????????? (for the free space > on the side of the toilet) > * toilets:wheelchair:space_front????????????????? (for the free space > in front of the toilet) toilets:wheelchair is not sufficient ? when does a user need to know all these details? I would have thought that what interests him is to know if in the end it is accessible or not or is the goal to make a detailed inventory of ok and not ok points? > * toilets:wheelchair:handrails?????????????????????? (for the number > of handrails) are you talking about a handrail like on the stairs or a bar located in the toilet allowing you to lean on to lift yourself between the chair and the toilet bowl? I fear a confusion of terms when the toilet has a staircase to get there. another term seems more appropriate to me > * toilets:wheelchair:door_width?????????????????? (for the door width > of the toilet) toilets:wheelchair:door:width but as before, i don't see the usecase > * toilets:wheelchair:narrowest_point_from_entrance > (to indicate the narrowest point from the entrance > to the toilet) osm is a geospatial database, adding tags describing the positioning between objects doesn't seem like a good idea to me (in the past, some have added tags to describe the nearest bus stop to a park, the nearest address to a bike station, it's potentially endless and without real added value, even if it's indoor, nothing prevents you from doing a highway=path indoor=yes connecting the object to its door, while waiting for an indoor mappinng > * elevator:width?????????????????????????????????????????????? (for > the width of the elevator) > * elevator:depth?????????????????????????????????????????????? (for > the depth of the elevator) > * elevator:door:width????????????????????????????????????? (for the > door width of the elevator) ok for the tag but what's the usecase ? is it used by your users to know if it is 1m or 1m05? or is it just useful to know if it usable ? another alternative is to add an elevator object and add the information about it without namespace or by its geometry > * wheelchair:description??????????????????????????????? (extra notes > about accessibility, used by Wheelmap) no need to ask, it's an in use tag :) > * amenity=changing_places?????????????????????????? (for a changing > place: https://www.changing-places.org/ > <https://www.changing-places.org/>) > * changing_table:adult??????????????????????????????????? (for a > changing table for adults) > * changing_table:adjustable_height??????????? (if the changing table > has an adjustable height) > * changing_table:hoist??????????????????????????????????? (ceiling > track hoist for people) I think this deserves a dedicated topic see diaper=* changing_table=* talk about the adult use. Regards, Marc ------------------------------ Subject: Digest Footer _______________________________________________ Tagging mailing list [email protected] https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging ------------------------------ End of Tagging Digest, Vol 164, Issue 2 *************************************** -- Dit e-mailbericht is met Avast-antivirussoftware gecontroleerd op virussen. www.avast.com _______________________________________________ Tagging mailing list [email protected] https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
