Regarding classing paint as a barrier, you wouldn't map a bicycle lane as a cycle way if it is only a painted line ( https://www.mapillary.com/app/?pKey=285967329802439) but if there is a barrier (Kreb, Armco, parked cars, etc.) it would be mapped as a separate cycleway (https://www.mapillary.com/app/?pKey=594425938270748).
Also no one (to my understanding) has a problem with bus lanes being tagged on the road's way and not as a separate bus only road. Ben. On Sat, 5 Mar 2022 at 15:03, <[email protected]> wrote: > I really hadn't expected people here to have such delusions about some of > the cornerstones of highway mapping in OSM which have been firmly > established for over a decade. > > To quote the wiki ( > https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Editing_Standards_and_Conventions#Divided_highways > ): > > A divided highway (also separated highway) is any highway where traffic > flows are physically separated by a barrier (e.g., grass, concrete, steel), > which prevents movements between said flows. > > The concept of what constitutes "physical separation" has been very firmly > established. And simply paint on the road surface isn't it. There are > plenty of tags available to record information about legal restrictions > imposed by paint. Splitting the way is not one of them. > > Also, you somehow seem to be under the misconception that OSM (name > notwithstanding) is a *map*. It's not. It's a database with geospatial > information. > > When you are editing OSM, you are not drawing a map. You are recording > geospatial information, abstracted by established tagging patterns. Some of > the data consumers of that information, after picking, choosing, and > interpreting while render a map derived from that information. > > Cheers, > Thorsten > > -----Original Message----- > From: cleary <[email protected]> > Sent: Saturday, 5 March 2022 09:38 > To: OpenStreetMap <[email protected]> > Subject: Re: [talk-au] "Don't split ways if there is no physical > separation" > > Hello again Dian > > If you cannot move left and a car to left of you cannot move right, then I > would suggest you are physically separated. It does not have to be a > concrete barrier one metre high to be "physical separation". Try telling a > police officer or a magistrate that the unbroken painted line did not > really constitute a physical separation of ways. > > The maxim is "Don't split ways if there is no physical separation". > Undoubtedly an unbroken painted line on a roadway frequently constitutes > "physical separation". > > If the community wants to change "physical separation" to something else, > such as a barrier constructed of specified materials to a specified minimum > height, then I plead for accuracy and usefulness of the map as guiding > principles when considering any change to the guideline. > > In regard to the statement that '' ... would demand each lane to be drawn > as a separate highway", I would say that nothing is "demanded". Every map > involves decisions about what is included and what is excluded. If we > mapped every insignificant object, the map would be so cluttered that it > would be useless. We do not usually map every individual tree in a forest. > However in some instances individual trees are mapped, where useful. The > creators of maps are always exercising judgement in what is included or > omitted. Not every physical item in the world, including every strip of > paint, "demands" to be mapped. > > > > > > On Sat, 5 Mar 2022, at 8:46 AM, Dian Ågesson wrote: > > Hi Cleary, > > > > Two points: > > > > Paint isn’t a barrier. Vehicles can, and do, traverse over paint; it’s > > legal in many cases if there is a road blockage, for example. Being > > unable to change lanes doesn’t make a single road into two roads. If I > > can’t merge left then I’m not travelling on a different road than the > > car next to me. > > > > Using legal separation to justify splitting the ways is also a poor > > standard. At most traffic light intersections, you can’t change lanes > > past a certain point. The method you’re describing would demand each > > lane to be drawn as a separate highway. > > > > Dian > > > > > > > > On 2022-03-05 07:44, cleary wrote: > > > >> > >> Paint is physical. It can be seen. It is not just a psychological or > imaginary concept. If one is driving a motor vehicle and abiding by the > law then, in my understanding, an unbroken painted line on the road is a > physical barrier that cannot be traversed. > >> > >> > >> On Fri, 4 Mar 2022, at 10:55 PM, [email protected] wrote: This > >> query was triggered by the following comment in another thread, > >>> but I’ll start a new thread so as not to distract the original. > >>> > >>> “ ’Don't split ways if there is no physical separation’ is one of > >>> the core tenets of highway mapping in OSM.” > >>> > >>> My query is about how to correctly map an intersection in Perth > >>> while abiding by the above. I will try to describe the situation as > >>> best I can without being able to resort to a sketch: > >>> > >>> - there is a junction between 2 major highways in Perth (Roe & > >>> Tonkin > >>> Highways) > >>> - there is a slip road off one (Roe heading west) that merges with > >>> the > >>> 2 lanes of the other (Tonkin heading south) > >>> - from the merge point there are 3 lanes (the slip lane + the 2 > >>> through > >>> lanes) > >>> - from the merge point, there is no physical barrier down to the > >>> traffic lights at the next intersection (Hale Rd - which is quite > >>> close – hundreds of metres) > >>> - however there is a solid white line between the slip lane and the > >>> 2 continuing lanes – right to the next intersection > >>> - this means you cannot legally come off the slip lane and turn > >>> right at the next intersection (Hale Rd) because you cannot legally > >>> cross the solid white line > >>> > >>> This has currently been mapped “as normal”, ie 1 slip lane joining a > >>> 2 lane road, becoming 3 lanes after the merge point. > >>> > >>> Other than maintaining the slip road as a separate way right to the > >>> next intersection (with a no right turn), how else would this be > >>> mapped so people coming off the slip road cannot turn right at the > >>> next intersection? > >>> > >>> Ian > >>> _______________________________________________ > >>> Talk-au mailing list > >>> [email protected] > >>> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au > >> _______________________________________________ > >> Talk-au mailing list > >> [email protected] > >> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au > > _______________________________________________ > Talk-au mailing list > [email protected] > https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au > > > > _______________________________________________ > Talk-au mailing list > [email protected] > https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au >
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