There are two things wrong:
- The antenna at the site of BIPT is placed not on the roof of the
building but above the white tent / parasol of the terrace (See their
Google map with satelite view).
(Are the antennas in front of the building against the wall?)
- The street before the cafe in OSM is running through this terrace
(see Bing sattelite view).
(The way is not actualy a street but the border of the market place)
the actual street should be located more south-west.
http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/way/91685551
Why do you convert the location in degrees, minutes and seconds as the
BIPT site has already 2 formats?
Coordonnées: 3.95292 E / 50.45506 N
Lambert: X: 120473 / Y: 127218 m
http://www.openstreetmap.org/?mlat=50.45506&mlon=3.95292&zoom=18
Seems the same location as on BIPT.
Regards,
Gerard.
Linusable wrote:
I have tried a few times this converter website :
the world coordinate converter <http://twcc.free.fr/>
From my point of view, it's OK, at least for the geodetic points i
tested. It could be interesting to discuss and chek some original data
for a few antenna, like the one i mentionned on the cafe 'Le Central',
grand place of Mons,
I have seen on the website of IBPT: http://www.sites.ibpt.be/ that the
position 3° 57' 10.5" E / 50° 27' 18.2" N for the above mentionned
point was also a few meters on the grand place, with the google images
Regards,
Linusable
Le 23/04/11 15:47, Ben Abelshausen a écrit :
It is possible the coordinate conversion was not very accurate but
the source data was. I had some problems before converting Lambert
coordinates and got about the same deviations.
Regards,
Ben
On Fri, Apr 22, 2011 at 9:59 PM, Linus Able <[email protected]
<mailto:[email protected]>> wrote:
Hello everybody, Hello Pol,
i should want to question the accuracy of the data. I have seen
(before Pol deleted the data) one of the antenna points on the
(openstreetmap) Grand-Place de Mons, in JOSM, with Bing aerial as
background. The point is café Le Central, at the corner of Grand
Place with rue de Nimy. I suppose the Antenna is on the roof,
but it appeared a few meters on the Grand Place, with a
difference of about 5-10m compare to the Bing images.
What is wrong (or imprecise) : antenna coordinates or Bing
position ?
In order to investigate Bing positionning around Mons, I checked
against a geodetic point from ign/ngi (www.ngi.be
<http://www.ngi.be>), using Fiche Planimétrique45D06C1, with a
survey point at position N 50.47149281234526 E 4.028218331187543
(Obourg). It seems that the error is less than 1-2 meters.
My naive first conclusion is that the accuracy of the antenna
positions could be quite poor, specially in dense area (towns or
cities). This could result to absurd situations like antenna on
streets.
Maybe it could be interesting to use a script to analyse distance
of antenna (from the data files) with nearest streets ? or
another standard procedure ?
Regards,
Linusable
Le 22/04/11 16:33, Pol a écrit :
I deleted them this morning and as long as the situation is not
clear.
-φol d.-
On Fri, Apr 22, 2011 at 10:22, Gerard Vanderveken <[email protected]
<mailto:[email protected]>> wrote:
I was looking up some on the map, but it seems that
tower:type = communications is not rendered anymore???
I tought they were before, altough only in Osmarender, cfr
VRT radio and tv towers in Overijse - Wavre.
I see some have a name, but I'm affraid that it won't add
much, but instead duplicating and cluthering the rendering
and names of the current places (buildings like churches etc)
http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/changeset/7911333
Some has also very generic names eg. watertoren, kerk, etc
There is a Wiki about GSM in the Belgian project
http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/WikiProject_Belgium/Mapping_resources#GSM.2FUMTS_antenna_sites
Should the points not to be deleted, until the status about
their use becomes clear??
For the moment it is obvious that it is forbidden data.
Regards,
Gerard.
Pol wrote:
Hello,
I contacted them this morning and they asked me to write
down a mail explaining the request, why, etc etc etc.
That's what I did. If you want a copy of the mail (in
french), just contact me in private.
They told me that they will forward the mail to their law
departement and I should expect an answer next week.
Let's cross our fingers ! ;) I'll keep you updated of the
situation !
By the way, I'll be at the hackdemocracy this Thursday,
April 28,
2011: http://www.meetup.com/HackDemocracy/events/17010026/
Have a nice day all.
-φol d.-
On Thu, Apr 21, 2011 at 22:14, Pol <[email protected]
<mailto:[email protected]>> wrote:
Hello,
Someone forwarded me the mail from Lennard talking
about the revert or not of my commit.
I wasn't aware of the existence of that mailing list
until now.
Let me explain to all of you how it all began...
One year ago I was looking, for personal purpose, the
coordinates of each cell phones antennas in Belgium.
The first site I found was: http://www.antennes-gsm.be/
But that one seems to be old and no more maintained.
Then I found the one of IBPT: http://www.sites.ibpt.be/
The one you are currently seeing at this address is the
new version.
When I first found it, they were using an old version.
By doing some searches, I found a huge security hole in it.
I was unemployed at that time and I decided to make an
exploit.
The exploit was simple, using HTML and JavaScript, I
could manipulate their databases by sending custom queries.
I'm not a kid and I'm someone who destroy someone
else's work, so I contacted them and explained the problem.
The reaction was fast, some days later I was in their
offices with my laptop, showing them the problem and
the possible solutions.
I also made a new local proof of concept that it could
be done in a nicer and cleaner way.
Unfortunately, they were really kind and say thanks but
we do not rely on our team to do the map, we rely on
another company and we cannot break the current
contract with them.
Before leaving, I asked to the head of security if it
was possible to get a dump of the antennas coordinates
in a more easy way to put it on OpenStreetMap and he
said that it couldn't be done: "Imaginez ce que
pourrait faire qqun de mal intentionné s'il trouve ces
données!" which means: "Imagine what could do someone
malicious if they finds these datas!".
Which is completely a non sense because those datas can
be retrieved from THEIR online website.
I said him that ! Someone could spot by himself all the
antennas and put them on OpenStreetMap. He didn't reply
to that one.
So, I leaved, quite sad.
Some month later, the current new system was in place
and the security hole vanished, problem solved.
With the new system, it's even easier to get their datas.
I decided to save in a file all the data I could get
from their map in a file and submit it to OpenStreetMap.
That's the end of the story.
It's up to you now to decide if you want to remove them
or not.
If you have questions, I'll reply to them on that
mailing list.
Nice evening all.
-φol d.-
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