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________________________________ From: Tim Elrick <o...@elrick.de> Sent: Tuesday, March 5, 2019 7:09:11 PM To: James; Begin Daniel Cc: Talk-CA OpenStreetMap Subject: Re: [Talk-ca] Microsoft has released its building outlines for Canada Hi Daniel and James, Sounds good, Daniel. Looking forward to see your tool. However, the Open Building Database data for Montreal looks pretty good in terms of number of nodes and orthogonalization. I am still working on how to break up the building blocks, however, with much less time on my hand than you seem to have. I will keep you posted as soon as I had some success. Thanks, James, for your kind offer. If we decide to import, which we will discuss on the local list first, we then will provide an import plan and will get back to for the technical implementation of providing the tiles on the tasking manager. I suggest, we continue this conversation on the Montréal list (challenging my French capabilities). Tim On 2019-03-04 19:48, James wrote: I could serve the output using the microdataservice and the osncanada task manager(multiple tasks) https://github.com/osmottawa/micro-data-service On Mon., Mar. 4, 2019, 7:16 p.m. Begin Daniel, <jfd...@hotmail.com <mailto:jfd...@hotmail.com>> wrote: Tim, ____ I have plenty of free time and I am interested in this import. I am about to complete a pre-processing tool that seems to “orthogonalize” building footprints pretty well using FME (safe software). I plan to present/discuss its functionalities next week on this list (vertex filtering, ensuring right angles, sorting building according to processing results, etc.). I have not examined how to break up building blocks into single units yet but I am interested to include it in the pre-processing tool if it is possible.____ __ __ Daniel____ __ __ *From:*Tim Elrick [mailto:o...@elrick.de <mailto:o...@elrick.de>] *Sent:* Saturday, March 02, 2019 19:58 *To:* talk-ca@openstreetmap.org <mailto:talk-ca@openstreetmap.org> *Subject:* Re: [Talk-ca] Microsoft has released its building outlines for Canada____ __ __ Hi Steve,____ __ __ As for Montreal: We will create an import plan on the wiki as soon as we have expanded the discussion about the Montreal import from our local face-to-face group to the Montreal OSM list and agreed on importing. Before we do this, we wanted to test the feasibility of the pre-processing first, as it involves quite some postgis coding to break up the building blocks into single buildings. Only thereafter, we will suggest an import (or not), depending on the feasibility of extracting single buildings. Otherwise we will follow the hand-drawn approach as usual (and as it is done on a daily basis at the moment by a couple of OSMappers).____ __ __ The Microsoft data set might still be useful for remote areas. Let's explore this altogether.____ __ __ Cheers,____ Tim____ __ __ On 2019-03-02 19:17, OSM Volunteer stevea wrote:____ On Mar 2, 2019, at 3:47 PM, John Whelan<jwhelan0...@gmail.com> <mailto:jwhelan0...@gmail.com> wrote:____ Two years ago a group of Toronto mappers submitted the City of Toronto Open Data license to the LWG to see if it was acceptable. I assume they meant to import things such as building outlines. I also assumed as I think others did that this meant Toronto mappers were happy to import the City of Toronto's data especially as it was discussed on talk-ca first.____ Historical info is appreciated for context, however, the LWG found Canada-wide city-by-city submissions for ODbL-compliance burdensome, given LWG's limited bandwidth. Assuming about events in the past is unhelpful, first because it is assuming (seldom helpful) and second, these events are in the past. How Toronto imported (building) data can't really help us first understand and second improve from what we learn until we know what we learned. That isn't presented here, but it could be.____ __ __ More recently Nate who currently lives in Toronto feels that this should be discussed once more in Toronto to work out what is desired etc.____ I agree with Nate. Perhaps first in Toronto, perhaps wider in talk-ca. "Once more" seems limiting, though it's possible it could suffice.____ __ __ Tim I think is organising Montreal open data import.____ Please consider adding this (and links to user: wiki or Talk pages) to the active Import wiki. Generate communication using our media!____ __ __ I note that Nate and Tim have different ideas about what should be imported. One is happy with bay windows and I think the other feels they should be removed.____ More discussion often yields consensus, especially as it "goes wide" (or as wide as is practical).____ __ __ We also have Pierre who is unhappy because the imported building outlines available have too many corners that are not right angles.____ More discussion often yields consensus.____ __ __ The local Ottawa mappers are content with their Open Data import and find the data quality acceptable even though Pierre has expressed reservations about it.____ More discussion often yields consensus. Wide area (large cities, province-wide, nationwide) imports are not easy to achieve consensus but can often reach something approaching one as data are entered, not liked, improved, liked better, et cetera. These are often an interactive, iterative process.____ __ __ Someone in Manitoba? mentioned there were no building outlines released for Manitoba? I apologise if I have the province name wrong.____ It is spelled correctly. I am not Canadian and I know that; it isn't hard to spell-check Manitoba.____ __ __ So we have a mixture of expectations which is only to be expected in a large group.____ More discussion often yields consensus. It might be part "mixture of expectations" but I'm sure that everyone will agree that "high quality data entering OSM" is expected. What can be difficult is "what do we mean by high quality?" (in addition to establishing and communicating clear goals for the importation of the data).____ __ __ Microsoft's Open Data provides another source of Open Data which might meet Pierre's data quality expectations. They may meet Nate's. All provinces and Territories now have Open Data building outlines available.____ OK, thanks for the clarification that a "union" of these datasets (Stats Canada-produced building data + Microsoft-produced building data) provide an "all provinces and Territories dataset." That truly is helpful as it makes it clear that "if Set A doesn't have your province's or Territory's building data, Set B will."____ __ __ Northwest Territories, Nunavut, and Yukon have populations of around 35,000 people. Realistically I don't think they have a group of local OSM mappers.____ Please don't "write them off" so easily. Not only does it seem "not nice," it may not be true. A better approach may be to actively develop community there, difficult as that might seem. I believe there is usually Internet available there in the villages (sometimes via clever and state-of-the-art methodologies) and it may be as simple as "shaking the trees" of the right people, then "they'll take it from there."____ __ __ Essentially the problem now we no longer have a Canada wide consensus on what is acceptable____ More discussion often yields consensus.____ __ __ ...appears to be how do you identify local mappers across Canada and how far away can a "local" mapper be to be considered local since it is the local mappers who make the decision about what is acceptable and I think it is they who have to drive the import process.____ There are no such "hard and fast" rules as this. I think you're on the right track that "hinterland" (I do not mean that disparagingly, rather more like "far away from others") OSM volunteers "drive the import process," so I again encourage you and others to "better develop" this community and let them, teach them, encourage them to "do what they will."____ __ __ I'm sure if a local group would like to contact me we can find resources to assist them if required.____ Excellent that you volunteer to be a "point person." While it's important that people "step up" like that, wider, open communication (here in talk-ca, the wiki page, the wiki's Discussion tab / talk page...) is also to be encouraged. In short, you can't cast the net too wide, so be broad in the reach to do so. De-centralize while developing both breadth and width (the whole country, at province-wide and city/vllage-wide levels) as well as "experts/consultants who are available" to answer questions and provide directional guidance and technical assistance. Good luck!____ __ __ SteveA____ California____ ___________________________________________________ Talk-ca mailing list____ Talk-ca@openstreetmap.org <mailto:Talk-ca@openstreetmap.org>____ https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ca____ __ __ _______________________________________________ Talk-ca mailing list Talk-ca@openstreetmap.org <mailto:Talk-ca@openstreetmap.org> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ca
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