Hi!
Gernot Hillier wrote:
> Francisco R. Santos schrieb:
>> Hope you enjoy you vacations in Spain!
>
> I'm quite sure I will! I just hope finding your way through the Renfe
You will, Barcelona is a great city.
> I'm quite sure I will! I just hope finding your way through the Renfe
> system locally will be easier than in the Web. :-)
Don't hope so. Renfe is the worst railway company in the world, well, at
least in Catalonia. Also, during august, Renfe service inside Barcelona
is under repair, they are changing a 40 year old electric system. The
metro network is good, so avoid Renfe at all expenses.
>> Thus said, I had notable problems with the current map of Barcelona -
>> most subway stations are not visible which are the most valuable
>> landmarks for strangers like myself.
Reply at the and.
>>
>> I took a look on the data and found that for most subway stations, the
>> subway_entrance's are mapped (currently not rendered by Mapnik and only
>> quit small by Osmarender), but not the railway=halt itself. So I took
>> the freedom to tag some nodes of existing railway tracks with the rough
>> position of the station (guessing from the position of the entrances).
>>
>> Hope that's ok for you!
>>
>> I don't think it's ok to map things without been personally there,
>> unless you can use some satellite imagery.
>
> Hmmm, why that? I agree with you when it comes to streets etc. which you
> need to classify and describe in some detail.
> However, from a passenger's perspective, a subway network is a quite
> abstract thing, especially when nearly all stations are already in the
> map and you only need to connect them. And as I don't need to classify
> or describe stations with more than the name, I don't see the real
> advantage of being there.
>
> The exact position where the trains stop and the subway routes will be
> quite inaccurate. The first can be fixed within minutes by local mappers
> and the latter will usually be rough anyways as you won't have GPS
> reception in the tunnel. Aditionally, an abstraction of a train stop
> with a point is very inprecise in it's nature (taking into account the
> length of a train).
>
> And finally, I usually use Yahoo images for verifying things - however
> for a subway network, they won't be too helpful, I doubt. :)
I agree with Francisco, I tried to use some Renfe information and all
material, including timetables, is copyrighted. Also FGC (Catalan train
system) and Metro information is copyrighted (and of course no public
domain)
So if you don't violate any copyright, fell free of mapping what you
like, that's OSM.
>
> > For example, in Madrid, some
>> stations have several entrances (1, 2, 3, 4 or even more) and the
>> station may be near one, or in the middle of them. I don't remember how
>> are Barcelona's underground entrances, but I wouldn't map any without
>> been there.
Barcelona metro network usually have four entrances, some of them
wheelchair accessible, some not. When you are in Barcelona you can
accurate the information.
...
>> No, don't use that map, since it has copyright ("© Ferrocarril
>> Metropolità de Barcelona, S.A"). In this case, nothing is better than
>> copied.
>
> Thankfully, it turned out, that really most stations were already mapped
> in barcelona with the subway_entrance nodes. So the only piece of
> information I'll steal from this map is the fact which line stops at
> which stations. I really don't think this kind of information can be
> copyrighted at all as it's common knowledge and no creativity is
> involved here.
Unfortunately, this information is copyrighted. It should'n be, but it
is. So please don't copy.
Barcelona is not very well mapped, I agree. Now, I'm leading a project
with the Metropolitan Council of Barcelona (Barcelona + 20
municipalities) to test the migration of all its data to OSM. So if the
project succeeds, I hope next year they will donate the data and we will
import this data to OSM main servers.
Yours,
Jaume.
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