On 12 August 2014 20:08, Philip Barnes <[email protected]> wrote: > I propose that nothing is removed, but the ref tag for tertiary and > unclassified is moved to official_ref. This will retain the data and > allow OSM to be used by those who can make use of this data. > > I know we should not tag for the renderer, but I think its ok to give > the renderer a clue as to which are displayed on signs and which aren't.
I guess I'm going to be in the minority, but I have to object to this proposed change. I don't really get what the problem is with showing the numbers on the shields on the default map. People using the map will quickly realise that they're not typically signed on the ground. Neither are quite a few names for rural roads outside villages -- but I don't see anyone saying we should replace the name=* tag with official_name=* as a result. So perhaps someone could clarify why it is a problem for them to be shown? To the contrary I actually find being able to see the numbers on the map incredibly useful. Two particular use cases: 1/ Official government notices about developments, road closures and diversions typically use the C-numbers to refer to the roads. Having a map style that displays them makes it much easier for the public to interpret the notices. Without such a map it would be much more difficult. 2/ In OSM mapping work, official documents for street names and Public Rights of Way released under the Open Government Licence will often refer to the C road numbers. Again having a map that shown them makes life much easier. When it comes to U-numbers for unclassified roads, I can see that they usually add unnecessary clutter to the map. So while they may be useful to see at times, I'd be in favour of them not being displayed on the default style. But I think this is a renderer issue -- perhaps someone should submit a ticket to have ref=* not rendered on highway=unclassified if there is a name=* present. Or perhaps it's the reference numbers' use in routers that is the actual problem? I can understand this more, but I'd have thought that any decent routers will need to be aware of a lot of local conventions, so it's not too much to expect they should also de-prioritise UK C-road and U-road numbers in road descriptions. IMO, the ref=* tag should be used for the primary reference number of the object, regardless of whether or not it's indicated on the ground. Whether or not these numbers are displayed on the map as shields or used to name roads in routers is a matter for the render or router. If there's a need to state whether or not the reference number (or the official name for that matter) of a road is displayed on the ground (or indeed if something different is shown) then I'd prefer a different tag is used for that. (For example the ref:signed=no" suggested/used by Andy elsewhere in this thread.) But I guess this view isn't going to be popular. So, if there is a consensus to go ahead with the mechanical edit to move the numbers off the ref key, then moving them to official_ref would seem like the least-worst thing to do. (I would, however, like to see official_ref used in the highway shields when ref=* is absent on highway=tertiary and above, so that the useful C numbers can still be displayed on the main map) Robert. -- Robert Whittaker _______________________________________________ Talk-GB mailing list [email protected] https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
