Hi,
In Ottawa, Canada there was a university course which ran into some
problems, eventually atracting the attention of the Data Working Group.
Here they start a conversation with the local community. The replies (at
bottom), point out some of the problems that the students made.
https://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected]/msg07985.html
It looks like some of the biggest problems was that students were not
responding to changeset comments from the community. Perhaps it's
important to press to the organisers that OSM is a community, and open
project, where we work collaboratively. They should interact back when
the other people interact with them.
Rory
On 01/10/17 00:01, Ciarán Staunton wrote:
DIT Study of Balbriggan
Thanks for the suggestions Donal, Ruairi and Dave, these give me a few
things to explore with the class and teachers.
On using HOTOSM, generally you need some sort of humanitarian/environmental
call to action that is urgent and I don't think Balbriggan has that.
Mapcraft can be explored, and if there are other things that are simpler
now is the time to suggest them.
Now on the big one from Rory (yes it is helpful).
- The mappers will first identify a theme or focus, and map according to
achieving a level of completeness defined by themselves and within a
boundary defined by themselves. At this stage I have suggested (before you
did) they join this mailing list and seek volunteer OSM users to consult on
what tagging might be best
- Students are not paid to map, nor are they instructed to map any
particular way, so they are utterly open to feedback. They are encouraged
to find out what conventional tagging is in use and learn about OSM. The
project hasn't got here yet but my feeling was they would document what
they wanted to do once they start and do it ahead of time so the interested
members of the community could comment
- I will take the suggestion to them that a teacher or class nominee
posts as much as possible up (and what they feel comfortable with) so that
the project is as transparent as possible. However, I would stop well short
of assuming that new users need higher forms of visibility because they are
a class group or because they are new users
- I will be explaining the general principles of OSM to them in a couple
of meetings, it will be made clear that the mapping in Balbriggan is osm
data and not their personal geodatabase
I think we need to focus here, as you did, on the massive shot in the arm
that groups working in particular areas can be to the OSM project overall,
especially if there is a local community link. They will be working with
both the political and community interests in the town, which may give a
further exposure to the fact that there is a big free database called OSM.
Ciaran
On Thu, Sep 28, 2017 at 2:45 PM, Rory McCann <[email protected]> wrote:
Hi,
That's a great idea, some minor thoughts and a big one:
If the students use Mapillary that would be great, because it means
other people can check the "source" in case someone made a mistake. And
we can use the mapillary images ourselves to map things the students
might have missed.
JOSM is good, but iD has a new feature where someone can "request
review" which could allow the community to help the mapper¹.
So the big bit:
This is now referred to as "Organized Editing"², and the OSM Data
Working Group is requesting feedback on any Policy that should be
created, similar to the Import Guidelines³ (which you all should fill
out!). It's to cover paid mapping, and (since elitist Germans want to
bash HOT & Missing Maps) any "organised mapathon".
The main question is: Who is telling the mapper what to map? How much
freedom does the mapper have?
If I see a dodgy/bad edit, the OSM approach is to contact the mapper and
talk to them. But if the person who uploaded it is being paid to map it,
then they don't have any freedom to act differently, they're just doing
their job. I can't suggest that someone not add a certain thing, if the
would get fired for not adding it! I should really be talking to their
manager.
Some classes (etc) are designed for the students to learn about OSM, and
the students are only required to map /something/. In which case I have
to talk to the student. It sounds like this is where the mappers will be
told what to map.
I suggest that the person in charge of the project post a diary entry
(they do already have an OSM account, right??) explaining their project,
what their experience with OSM is, where they'll be mapping, what they
will be adding, what the source is, who the team members will be, etc.
All of the team members should probably have a separate OSM account for
the mapping, and in their OSM user profile mention that they are working
on a certain project, and include a link to the person in charge of the
project. Perhaps they should also details in changeset comments/tags
about the project. This way, if anyone sees a dodgy edit, we know who to
ask about it.
It's also important that the people running this project know about OSM.
Sometimes people think it's a generic geo-data-store, where you have
private layers, and can just store whatever you need to there. Nope,
we're all in one database. So other mappers might come along and
fix/change/improve/delete something you add, if appropriate. This may or
not affect your project. Sometimes people react to this with "We need
the data in this form for our project, stop changing/deleting it". But
if the data is "wrong" (by OSM standards) then tough. This could be a
problem for a project, so they should (i) be aware of it and (ii) have
some idea of what they should do if this happens.
The other thing that could help is for the leader and members to post to
this mailing list, or try to get engaged in the OSM community. OSM is
both a free geo-database, and a community of people who want to create a
free geo-database. Engagement with the community could help them learn a
lot more, get questions answered, get help, etc.
It would be great to spruce up data in some places, and (hopefully)
spawn more mappers!
Hope that helps,
Rory
----
¹ http://neis-one.org/2017/09/review-requests-osm/
² https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Organized_Editing_Policy
³ https://blog.openstreetmap.org/2017/09/22/dwg-survey-on-orga
nised-editing/
On 27/09/17 00:48, Ciarán Staunton wrote:
Dublin Institute of Technology are running a semester long class study of
Balbriggan. This is with their undergrads B.Sc in Environmental Management
and Spatial Planning. They have decided to use openstreetmap for
Balbriggan, but obviously it would need a lot of detail added to get the
particular data they want.
I have talked to their teachers and advised them on getting JOSM into
their
lab machines to do some desktop mapping initially. However, they want to
also survey so I have recommended Mapillary, Street Complete, OSM tracker,
and maps.me... as well as a paper solution with field papers.
Has anyone else heard of a localised effort like this? I think the class
has 20 students.
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