Does anybody know anything about https://librelist.com/ for hosted Mailman
lists? If this is a reliable service it seems tailor made for this group.
For the rest (website, forms/surveys, shareable calendar) you can pretty easily
get a managed Wordpress (Namecheap is $66/year for example), but in my
(limited) experience, hosting providers that offer managed Wordpress often
don't want to handle email discussion lists.
Cheers,
Erica
------- Original Message -------
On Wednesday, November 30th, 2022 at 11:30 AM, Evan Leibovitch via talk
<[email protected]> wrote:
> On Wed, Nov 30, 2022 at 5:03 AM ac via talk <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> to admin a vps or two with apache/nginx and mailman with a fewthousand?
>> subscribers is, imnsho, not a major thing and in terms ofvps costs is maybe
>> like 10 bucks a month (for two vps) if even two isreally needed
>
> The issue is not the server or its cost, but the care and feeding of web
> services:
>
> - Email (multiple lists)
> - Aliases
>
> - Forms and surveys (*)
> - Website
> - Shareable calendar (*)
>
> The ones marked with (*) We would LIKE to do but don't yet have the tools
> and/or time and/or smarts to do.
>
>> I have been on the mailing list for ten? years now and I do notremember any
>> month where gtalug had any volume that exceeds what a fivebucks per month
>> vps can carry and a properly configured mailman (whichis very mature and can
>> be battle hardened)
>
> We've had some very smart people running mailman and it still doesn't work to
> anyone's satisfaction. Or maybe it's our SMTP server, I don't know which one
> it is.
>
> The existing people on the Board have just become exhausted and the
> volunteers with the tech skills and keys to everything aren't always
> reachable. As volunteers I don't expect immediate tech support, but it just
> makes the process of constant firefighting more than we are prepared to bear.
>
>> cannot take more than anhour or two per month to admin.
>
> I can only tell you that this is nowhere near the effort required, which is
> an insane amount of effort required for a small group like ours.
>
>>> Anything we host ourselves bears both admin resources and financial
>>> hosting cost. Right now we're using mailman and frankly, I see the
>>> bounce messages and it's almost impossible to keep track of.
>>> (Hint: I tried mailing this Sunday night but that bounced). I really
>>> don't like mailman anymore. There are better ways to filter spam.
>>>
>> if your own email to mailman is bouncing, this is probably not what you
>> think it is :)
>
> It probably isn't. But I'm tired of running after other people to diagnose.
>
>>> That said, I'm in no position to guarantee anything.
>>>
>> and this sentence is the crux of it. personally I do not trust google.
>
> I can't guarantee that I'll be alive tomorrow, either.
>
> There is no reason to believe that Google for Nonprofits is going away any
> time this decade, and if there is I'd love to hear it. If they tried it, the
> outcry from the charitable world would be deafening.
> There are many reasons and ways to mistrust Google; this isn't one of them.
>
>> it would be far easier to pay 10 bucks and get three sysadmins to eachdonate
>> an hour a month (and their scripts :) )
>
> That's the whole point of this conversation. We're already paying a nominal
> hosting fee and have volunteer sysadmins and things are still constantly
> borked.
>
> IT IS NOT EASIER, let alone FAR easier, our real-world experience to date
> bears that out.
>
>> so, if you decide to continue having an emailing list and self
>> hostedservices I would gladly donate some of my time (at least fourhours a
>> month [...]
>
> If all we had to do is threaten to move services to Google in order to get
> more people to volunteer, we could have done that ages ago. We're well past
> that. Your four hours a month are still very much valued, but we need that
> energy for more things than just keeping things running -- especially when we
> have an offer, at no cost, of commercial-grade online services.
>
>> providing that there is at least one (or two) otherhigh/senior skill
>> dev/sys/ops also?
>
> See? Every volunteer effort comes with strings and limitations. So does mine.
> So does that for everyone else on the Board.
> A group this small should not need to be spending so much of its
> behind-the-scenes energy just herding cats. There's too much else to do that
> isn't being done just so we can keep the virtual lights on.
> - Evan
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