You know, not being able to go forward with a plan/concept/task because "well, you know, all of the things that need to be in place for perfection are not in a perfect state" and so therefore we do nothing, is not how inspiring, new, bold work gets done.
Most businesses/new processes brought about through fresh initiative are just brought together as best as can be done right now while the iron is hot and perfection is a state that is usually never achieved or at best we just keep striving for it in process and product. I'm not saying I've got the answer. I'm not saying Zend is the only answer. But I think the lack of knowable skill measurement hampers the growth and respect of this PHP business, hampers and hinders fluid hiring and keeps a large segment of programmers stagnated with no known career route/objective to strive for. I'd rather go to any business interview being able to say "yes, I took the cert and passed" than not. Peter -----Original Message----- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of David Krings Sent: Tuesday, April 22, 2008 12:41 PM To: NYPHP Talk Subject: Re: [nyphp-talk] About Formalizing an Enterprise PHP and the PHP+Developer Peter Sawczynec wrote: > d) we have a handful of large free PHP user groups and these groups, say > the top 10, should be formally recognized, and one should be expected to > belong to one of these groups. I understand the motivation, but I don't think mandating a membership in a club is helpful. And why just limit it to the top 10? And who says/knows who the top 10 are? > So what would be wrong if we just agreed as a professional group to use > these above entities as our bedrock standards. We use the Zend cert, the > Zend IDE/framework and officially sanction Php.net and > Sourceforge.net/PEAR as the defacto outlets of help/reference and code. Hmmm, I am not likely what one would consider "enterprise PHP", but I have no idea on how to outlet code on Sourceforge and I think the Zend IDE rapidly inhales big time. And while I do like a good IDE, I don't know if tying anything to a specific vendor is beneficial. > We would not deny the use of, learning of, or the amicable co-existence > of any and all other outlets/entities, but the above noted entities > would be the generalized initial standards. I think it is not good to have tool X define your standard and outright say that tool X is the standard. A standard should name specific requirements and rules as to what needs to be adhered to. If tool X can do that, fine, but if tool Y can do that as well and I happen to like it better, what's wrong with that. I know you are getting at that, but "amicable co-existance" is a no go when you clearly prefer one over all others. > So as a new programmer in books/classes/tutorials you are always pointed > to Php.net for reference, you are behooved to use from and contribute to > Sourceforge.net/PEAR, you are prompted/guided/expected to join a listed > user group, and you are advised to get Zend cert and learn that > IDE/framework. Nah, have them look at the IDEs and frameworks that are available. For example, I think NuSphere rivals Zend (and I think it wipes the floor with it, but that is purely subjective), but both are not free. I find that a suitable classification of a free environment such as is the case with PHP ought not mandate and benefit for profit organizations as is the case with Zend. > And that a programmer who has Zend cert. and is a recognized user group > member can use the status of PHP+ user/programmer on their > credentials/resume. I don't know enough about the Zend cert, but is that a cash cow like the cert programs are for Cisco or Microsoft? Are there any other PHP certifications in place? Doesn't CompTIA have something like that? Also, who would be the entity issuing the PHP+ credential? If there is no place one could verify the credentials anyone can just write it on their resume, which devalues the credential quite quickly. Also, is it to be internationally or only nationally recognized (such as A+)? > > Just a thought. Now that could be a start. It is a good start and a good thought. David _______________________________________________ New York PHP Community Talk Mailing List http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk NYPHPCon 2006 Presentations Online http://www.nyphpcon.com Show Your Participation in New York PHP http://www.nyphp.org/show_participation.php _______________________________________________ New York PHP Community Talk Mailing List http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk NYPHPCon 2006 Presentations Online http://www.nyphpcon.com Show Your Participation in New York PHP http://www.nyphp.org/show_participation.php
