Rick and Others,

While I don't know all of the specifics in this case, I am familiar with
this issue with respect to Mailman on some other lists.  Therefore, it is
possible that what I write may not be completely correct here, but it still
might be helpful.

The first thing to understand is what is meant when an email is "bounced."
In general, it means that when AI Squared sends out a list message, it gets
a message back saying the message cannot be delivered for some reason.  This
is generally due to the interaction of AI Squared with the email service
provider.  More correctly, it isn't AI Squared, but the specific server used
to send out Window-Eyes emails, and it can be even more specific than that.
Usually, the receiving email service provider, in all of its infinite
wisdom, has decided that the Window-Eyes.com domain is a source of spam.  It
could also mean that the general service that Window-Eyes uses has been
flagged as a source of spam, or even another domain within the general
service.  In one case, when I had trouble with my mail being received by
EarthLink, it was because the IP address of one of the SMTP servers used by
my email service along with other services was black listed.  The content of
the message that is sent back to AI Squared may have an explanation.  There
sometimes is specific information as an attachment to the request for
confirmation.

Mailman, rather than just unsubscribing you when it first gets a bounced
message, keeps track of how many bounced messages it gets from each address
during the day.  As each day passes, it reduces that count by some amount so
that if there was a problem that was corrected, your bounce count
automatically eventually returns to zero.  If, however, your count reaches
some defined limit which can vary, your count is suspended and you get one
of those confirmation messages if the system is optionally set up for that.
When you confirm, you are telling the software that you do still exist and
it then knows it is all right to send you messages even though they might be
bouncing sometimes.  If the count for your address hits the limit again,
though, you again will need to prove you are still there.

While this can be annoying, keep in mind that if your email provider does
not send a "bounce" message back, that you will never know you are missing
messages.  This process lets you know that there is some sort of interaction
between the list and your service provider that is problematic.

AI Squared likely could raise the limit of bounced messages, but this means
that you will not know you have messages not being delivered to you for a
longer time.  Sometimes there are headers that can be added that lowers the
likelihood that messages are treated as SPAM, and my guess is that they
probably are looking into that.

This is not going to work the same for all Mailman lists.  Some options can
be set differently for different installations and there are also
differences between Mailman versions.  In addition, the bounced messages are
usually due to your email provider thinking the messages being sent are
probably SPAM, so it will vary with the email provider and the source of the
list email.  I am on a number of lists generated by MailMan and I am having
this problem with one specific list but not this one.  Therefore, this is
going to appear to be random sometimes, but it is really that there are
multiple variables.

Best regards,

Steve Jacobson

-----Original Message-----
From: Talk
[mailto:[email protected]] On
Behalf Of Rick Thomas via Talk
Sent: Wednesday, August 26, 2015 7:39 AM
To: 'Window-Eyes Discussion List'
Subject: Mailman Problems for AI2

Here is the first thing that came up when I googled this problem:
I don’t know if it is the software they are using but it shows that control
of bouncing is most likely at the AI2 end and not at our end nor the IP Host
end.
Also, it doesn’t address why the Talk list messages are being flagged as
spam - more research along these lines is necessary and I will continue
looking into this problem.
But the actual disabling of our accounts is controlled by AI2 if you read
below.
<Begin CopiedText>
  
EsoSoft Corporation 
 
 
 
Mailing List Hosting 
 
Service & Support 
 
 
 
 
 
 
www.esosoft.com/ 
 
Click for Live Support 
 close window
Bounce Processing
Unlike many other mail list managers, Mailman includes built-in bounce
handlers to help the list manager deal with addresses that have delivery
problems.  If you run large lists with dynamic membership then these
settings may save you a lot of time in helping to weed out addresses that go
bad. 
The settings on this page control the automatic bounce processing system in
Mailman. If you set Mailman to perform automatic bounce processing, here is
an overview of that process: 
 
When a bounce is received, Mailman will try to extract two pieces of
information from the bounce: 
 
 
1. The address of the list member which has generated the bounce.
 
 2. The severity of the problem which caused the bounce. 
 
 
The severity will be labeled either "hard" or "soft".
 
 If the bounce was caused by a fatal error (such as "user unknown"), the
severity will be labeled "hard".
 
 If the bounce was caused by a temporary error (such as "mailbox full"), the
severity will be labeled "soft".
 
 If Mailman is in doubt about the cause of the bounce, the severity will be
labeled "hard". 
 
If the address of the list member whose address has bounced cannot be found,
Mailman will either discard the bounce or send it to the list owner
(depending upon the settings you select on this page). 
 
Otherwise, each member is assigned a "bounce score". Each time a bounce is
caused by a particular member's e-mail address, the bounce score for that
member is increased. Hard bounces increase the member's bounce score by 1.
Soft bounces increase the member's bounce score by 0.5. Increases to a
particular member's bounce score happen only once per day. This means that
even if a member's e-mail address causes ten "hard" bounces in one day, that
member's bounce score will only increase by 1. 
 
If a member's bounce score exceeds the "bounce score threshold" (set by you,
below), the member's subscription is disabled - or the member is
unsubscribed - depending on your settings below. If the subscription is
disabled, the member will not receive any posting from the list until the
subscription is manually re-enabled (either by the list administrator or the
member). The member will, however, receive occasional reminders that the
subscription has been disabled. These reminder messages will include
information about how to re-enable the subscription. You control both the
number of reminders sent to the member as well as the frequency with which
the reminders are sent. 
 
You also set (below) the total number of reminder messages that will be sent
before Mailman permanently unsubscribes the address from the mailing list.
If you set this value to 0, Mailman will skip the entire "disable and send
reminders" period and unsubscribe the e-mail address immediately. 
 
 
 
 An important setting below is the "number of days to store a member's
bounce score". If a member's e-mail address generates no bounces during this
"number of days", the bounce score for this member is re-set to zero. By
adjusting this value along with the bounce score threshold, you can control
how quickly bouncing members are disabled and or unsubscribed. 
 
 
   
 
 
 
 
 
Value 
 
 
Description 
 
 
Should Mailman perform automatic bounce processing? 
 
Set this to Yes if you'd like Mailman to perform automatic bounce handling. 
 
The recommended setting for this option is: Yes 
 
 
The maximum member bounce score before the member's subscription is
disabled. This value can be a floating point number. 
 
This is the "bounce score threshold" as described above. 
 
The recommended setting for this option is: 2 
 
 
The number of days after which a member's bounce information is discarded,
if no new bounces have been received in the interim. This value must be an
integer. 
 
If a member's e-mail address generates no bounces during this period of time
(number of days), the member's bounce score is re-set to zero. 
 
The recommended setting for this option is: 30 
 
 
How many 
Your Membership Is Disabled
 warnings a disabled member should get before their address is removed from
the mailing list. Set to 0 to immediately remove an address from the list
once their bounce score exceeds the threshold. This value must be an
integer. 
 
If the member's subscription is disabled, how many reminder messages should
Mailman send to the member? 
Set this option to 0 if you would like Mailman to unsubscribe bouncing
addresses immediately. 
 
The recommended setting for this option is: 0 or 2 
 
 
The number of days between sending the 
Your Membership Is Disabled
 warnings. This value must be an integer. 
 
How often should the reminder messages be sent? 
The recommended setting for this option is: 7 
 
 
Should Mailman send you, the list owner, any bounce messages that failed to
be detected by the bounce processor? 
 
If Mailman cannot determine the e-mail address that is bouncing, should a
copy of the bounce be sent to the list owner? 
The recommended setting for this option is: Yes 
 
IMPORTANT:
 Mailman will do his absolute best to handle all of your list's bounces
automatically. However, there will be some bounces that require human
intervention. The list owner is required to provide that human assistance.
Mailing lists which generate bounces that are not acted upon violate
EsoSoft's Acceptable Use Policy. Inaction on the part of the list owner
could result in the deactivation of the mailing list. 
 
 
Should Mailman notify you, the list owner, when bounces cause a member's
subscription to be disabled? 
 
Select Yes if you would like to be notified when a member's subscription is
disabled. 
There is no recommended setting for this option. Either choice is fine. 
 
 
Should Mailman notify you, the list owner, when bounces cause a member to be
unsubscribed? 
 
Select Yes if you would like to be notified when a member is unsubscribed by
Mailman because of bounces. 
There is no recommended setting for this option. Either choice is fine. 
 
 
 
Back to the main Mailing List Support page 
. 
 
 
  
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
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Contact Us 
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Legal 
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<End CopiedText>

_______________________________________________
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_______________________________________________
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and do not necessarily represent those of Ai Squared.

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