David, I was merely commenting on the history of how Window-Eyes was distributed a number of years ago.
I cannot make any comment at all regarding how Window-Eyes is currently being distributed. I was responding to the subject line of the e-mail. Regards, John Tel: +44 (0) 1442 259243 Mob: +44 (0) 7815 056076 -----Original Message----- From: David [mailto:[email protected]] Sent: Saturday, February 04, 2017 5:32 PM To: [email protected]; 'Window-Eyes Discussion List'; 'Loy'; 'Pamela Dominguez' Subject: Re: WinEyes and licensing Apparently, GW and their licensing deals quite differently from one place to the other. Locally, Yes we can install WE in a locale version, on how many computers we want. But should I decide to go for an English version, I am under restrictions of something like three or five computers. Believe me, I have discussed this with the local dealer, and even took the whole issue directly to Doug, questioning why you in the UK can run unlimited installations of the English version, and in one of your neighboring countries, we are all the sudden restricted on the very same version. And, yes we too are well aware of all what a Copyright means. I am not going to argue their rights to restrict. I just wonder why they restrict the paid version, whereas I am free to download as many copies of the screen reader I ever desire, in ANY of the supported languages, if I go for the free version. If I, in my local area want to BUY an English version, I am under restrictions. Do I want the very same English, fully working version, and I download the FREE version, hey now I have no further restrictions from the manufacturer. That is where my logic ends. Go ahead, restrict the users, but do so all over the board. And at least, if you want to restrict, why only restrict the paid version, leaving the free version unrestricted? Doesn't that encourage the user to go for the free version? And all you said about copyright, does make sense. Except from the fact that people in all coutries, can get the unrestricted versions for free, only if you pay, you likely will be messing with the Copyright, so let's have you restricted. Smile. I just don't get the logic in that. OK then, it is not of the biggest issues either, only I wonder if that will encourage people in such areas to keep paying. And that was my real initial point, that we might see less people paying, and eventually that might lead to the fall of the development's priority, on behalf of the screen reader. The best thing, like I stated, would have been if they simply made one big and multi-lingual version, leaving the users the chance of deciding which installation or functionality will be most suitable for her at any time. First they have given all language-specific versions away for free the last few years, I am not sure wherein the show-stopper would be, in making it all combined into one and same license. After all, many other pieces of software are released in multi-lingual versions. And even when tied to one language, your license would typically be equal, no matter which language you decide to run. Should I - for instance - want to run Windows itself in German, even if I was located in the North-Americas, I would be entitled the exact same rights and restrictions as if I was running an English version. Microsoft - to all my knowledge - does not give me one set of rules for a Spanish version of Windows, and if I happen to live outside Spain, another set of rules. Or, if I want to run in french, even if my area is mostly running Italian, Microsoft would not get far if they posed a drastic reduction in my rights. If they want to go International, and apparently they do, then they might want to revise some of the ways they deal with the linguistic issues. What's more, did they develop one multi-lingual version, it could have saved them a load of extra work on every new release. every user could get one and same version, so they did not have to make specific packages for every locality. When they released version 9.5.4, they even ended up in a situation, where they released the locale version over here, with some of the files in English. That caused some issues, which they had to fix. Now, had they only one worldwide version, such would not have been an issue at all. One way it could have been done, is that you would get the license for the software, and then install a Main Core. Then you would download a set of files, holding the language-specific files. Or, these could have been packed on the installation DVD, did you go for a hard-copy installation. If you only use one language, your installation would only hold the files for that language. for those who use five languages, it would mean a few extra KBytes of disk space, as the installation would include a few extra files. In modern technology, that means nothing. Far as I am aware, and please correct me should I be wrong, NVDA for one comes in a multi-lingual version. My former screen reader - Blindows, now taken over by Baum - was in a multi-lingual version. Do I want to run a well-reputed software like Malwarebytes, it is in Multi-Lingual version. I can get my Anti-Virus in any of its supported languages, with no differences in rights and restrictions. Even certain versions of Windows, used to come in multi-lingual versions, with no differences in rights, no matter which language I chose to install or activate at any given time. If now all those other manufacturers have been able to go multi, why is it the screen reader never did? The others had to face Copyright issues as well, didn't they? If VFO gives all languages away for free, why then the restrictions when you pay? OK, won't drill any more on this. Judging from a handful messages received, it seems I was right in one assumption. Most English users are not aware all the restrictions posed onto locale versions. And so my initial idea was just to point out that such restrictions do exist. And John, you mention Europe. For one, I definitely am sitting in Europe right now, writing this. On 2/4/2017 12:52 PM, John Farley wrote: > David, > > North America and most of Europe, including the UK can run Window-Eyes > without authentication on each occasion that the version being used is > correctly licenced. That is, without a dongle or other mechanical means of > licence authentication. This may also be the case in Australia and New > Zealand, but I am not too sure of that. There may be a Knowledge Base item > which details where this applies. > > This was done originally as there are many parts of the world outside of the > North American continent where software piracy, or euphemistically software > sharing, is rife. > > Software producers, not just GW-Micro, follow such a practice in order to > protect their income stream, which is a perfectly valid think to do. > > As far as the accent of the speech is concerned I have most of my speech > output set to use UK English, although I need to accept the use of an > American accent for the Window-Eyes elements of the speech output. > Like the UK the USA has many localised accents in use in pronouncing the > spoken word. > Most people can accept the use of such localised accents. > > The real difference in the use of English between our two continents is the > simplified spelling of many words used in the USA as opposed to that being > used in the UK, where the spellings originated from (smile). > > > > Regards, John > > Tel: +44 (0) 1442 259243 > Mob: +44 (0) 7815 056076 > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Talk > [mailto:[email protected]] On > Behalf Of David via Talk > Sent: Saturday, February 04, 2017 12:30 AM > To: Loy; Window-Eyes Discussion List; Pamela Dominguez > Subject: Re: WinEyes and licensing > > Nope. All messages, menus and so forth, will be in ONE, and only ONE > language. The voices are there only to let you read other languages. > > > Yet, say you have turned on Eloquence french, due to you mainly working > with French documents and websites. If your WinEyes is installed under > an English license, all the WinEyes produced messages, will be send as > English phrases to a French synthesizer. Try for a moment yourself, and > see what it all will sound like. > > > You don't think there are all that many phrases, so it can't be that > much of an issue? Well, try to scroll down a website. All the screen > reader produced messages like: > > Link, > > Paragraph, > > Combobox, > > Editbox, > > Read-Only, > > and so forth, are send in the language of your screen reader > installation, no matter which language is supported by your currently > chosen voice. > > > Or, try it under your favorite Email program. The phrases like: > > Read, > > Unread, > > Attachment, > > And so on, again are send in the language of your installation. Try to > listen too a Spanish voice, or an Italian one, pronounce the English > phrases. Judge for yourself. > > > Been the trouble with WE for all times, that they never understood > people could have more than one language, and would need to switch > several times in a day. Hey all you Canadians, you would at least know > what it means to read more than one language. > > > Greatest thing would be if they could release a multi-lingual license - > holding all supported languages. And now, if they then could let it even > be set to switch automatically to the language supported by the > currently active synth, they would have done a great job. But all my > requests for such features, have been met with loads of excuses and > words about being unable, due to licensing and worries of piracy. Not > sure what would make such a multi-lingual version more vulnerable to > piracy, but that is the explanation GW has been offering me for the last > decade. > > > Well, just wanted to illustrate a point for you all. Other International > and non-English users will know what i am talking about, and may be able > to offer you more illustrative cases. > > > Yet, may I ask you who are all English-speaking users, how would you > accept if I released a screen reader that gave all its menus and > internal messages in German? So every time you browsed the net, or every > time you pressed the Ctrl-Home in a text document, you got the phrases > from the screen reader, with German text pronounced by your English > voice? Here, let me save you all the hazzle. Simply let your current > English voice read the following messages, and imagine your day being > filled with this kind of working conditions. Then, you please come back > and tell me how many of you would pay for the product. Smile. > > > nur-Lese, > Eingabefeld für den, > ungelesen, > Lesen, > Anlage, > Anfang des Dokuments, > Zeilenende. > > > On 2/4/2017 12:55 AM, Loy via Talk wrote: >> Window Eyes paid version comes with synthesizers in multi languages. > Don't know if the program is in other languages or not. >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: Pamela Dominguez via Talk >> To: David ; Window-Eyes Discussion List >> Sent: Friday, February 3, 2017 6:27 PM >> Subject: Re: WinEyes and licensing >> >> >> I didn't know we only get one language. I was lead to believe that all > the >> languages were in there and we could choose whatever language we wanted > to >> install. Pam. >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: David via Talk >> Sent: Thursday, February 02, 2017 3:29 PM >> To: Vaughan Dodd ; Window-Eyes Discussion List ; 'Don Smith' >> Subject: WinEyes and licensing >> >> Vaughn, >> I just wanted to hook on to one point you made. And that is the one >> about the free Office Offer of WinEyes, in comparison with the paid-for >> versions. >> You said: >> >> " >> >> Part of my complaint is that the Window-Eyes for Office programme, > which is >> free to those who use it, get permanent access to the full install, but >> paying customers do not." >> >> (End Of Quote). >> >> See, if you happen to own one of the required versions of Office, you >> can download WinEyes in English, German, french or Norwegian, or any of >> the other supported languages. Do you fork out enough money to pay for >> your screen reader, you all the sudden are forced, bound and locked to >> ONLY one language; even if you are in want of a change down the road. > In >> addition, you are told that now, since you paid for the product, you no >> longer can install it on how many computers you want. Oh no, now you >> have a limit to your installations - at least in parts of the world. > The >> reason, that is given from GWMicro and up, is that if they let you >> install an English copy of WinEyes on a computer located in > Scandinavia, >> that would lead to people making pirate copies. Huh? sorry, but how > come >> the Free Offer does not lead to piracy? Since they can give it away in >> all languages, why can't they give the paid-for customers free choice > of >> languages? In fact, why not simply release ONE version of WinEyes, >> holding a setting that determines which language would be the active >> one, at any given time. Other manufacturers can, so why has such never >> been an alternative with this screen reader, or with Jaws? >> >> To me, and I guess a few other International users, the whole thing >> becomes even more illogical, all the time the free offer can be >> downloaded and installed in whatever language you might want. >> >> Now that most customer service seem to be gone, at least for the > moment, >> I start to wonder what would make people pay for the product. If the >> free offer does give you better functionality and higher choices, and >> the paid-for version no longer receive all that much individual > support, >> I really am reluctant to what benefit the 50, 100, or 175 dollar >> upgrades do give us any longer. And the day people stop paying? Is that >> the day they are awaiting, before the plug could be pulled, now fully >> supported by the fact that money stopped coming in? >> >> Sure, some users might feel it is worth to pay, simply due to them >> thereby supporting the further development. But for many users, economy >> is an issue, and when they already have paid who knows how many >> thousands through the years, and now no longer receive much benefit of >> keep paying, where would that take them? My guess is, if they want to >> see the big multitude continue to pay, there might be a need for some >> revision on the whole licensing and offering of the product line. As a >> matter of fact, since you have paid for your product, why give you a >> download window at all? Why not simply give you some kind of a log-in >> credencial, and then let your copy of the product be made available for >> downloading, anytime you might need it in the future? Fact is, they >> already do that with your free upgrades, like the recent one. I haven't >> seen any notice come up, that told me the upgrade would need to be >> downloaded within a given time scope. If you don't upgrade for two >> weeks, the upgrade will be ready for you still. But if you want your >> original, paid-for instalation copy, then you all the sudden are under >> loads of restrictions. >> >> Perhaps I am missing something. But to me this simply does not make >> logic sense. If you are under no real restriction long as you go free, >> why then is it that you are loaded with restrictions any time you pay? >> Shouldn't it be, and isn't it with many other products, the opposite > way >> - Freeware with restrictions, and pay to have all your benefits? >> >> Let's just hope, whatever comes next in the way of WinEyes, Jaws, or a >> combined product, that they come up with better licensing terms, which >> to a much higher extent reflects the fact that a great number of users >> now aday are multi-lingual. And let's hope they make it low-cost and >> beneficial, or simply just go free altogether. When NVDA manage to > offer >> people greater flexibility, and as time goes by becomes more >> full-fledged, it does pose a stress on the expenses tied to either of >> the mainstream screen readers. >> >> I still feel that a good product deserve its reasonable pricing. As >> such, NVDA has not yet reached the level of becoming a real alternative >> for the more advanced group of users. But WinEyes, Jaws and the rest of >> the mainstream readers, might have to undergo some kind of revision if >> they want to advocate their high pricing. When one and same product can >> be had with better advantages for free, than the paid-for copies, I am >> afraid that is a slow pull of the plug. >> >> OK then, we do not know if something is on its way. Maybe the licensing >> already is being revised. But as things stand today, it makes you > wonder >> why not spend your next fifty dollars on an upgrade of your computer >> hardware, and then go for the free Office-version of WinEyes. A couple >> of paid-for upgrades, or one SMA, and I guess you almost could get hold >> of a full version of one of the supported Office versions. >> >> On 2/2/2017 8:23 PM, Vaughan Dodd via Talk wrote: >> >> > Hi Don. >> > >> > Glad that at least one paying customer is getting a level of support > that >> > should be expected. >> > >> > My experience is frustrating. >> > >> > I no longer request the DVD, as the last one took more than six weeks > to >> > arrive. I like the option of requesting a personalised downloadable >> > edition of the full release. >> > >> > My grumpiness with this is that I recently asked for an extension of > the >> > period before my serialised link expired. I've been given 36 hours > from >> > two different sources. IN other words - two personalised links, > each >> > available to me separately for 36 hours. >> > >> > I have laid a complaint with the AI Squared sales people. >> > >> > The Window-Eyes specific technical support has gone. The second link > I >> > received which expired (as did the first one) before I opened the > email >> > came from VFO technical support. The physical address is in St >> > Petersburg. Surely: it would have made sense to rationalise sales > ahead >> > of technical support, and emails from all over the place direct me to > GW >> > Micro.com - what a lovely place that once was! >> > >> > Part of my complaint is that the Window-Eyes for Office programme, > which >> > is free to those who use it, get permanent access to the full > install, but >> > paying customers do not. >> > >> > Don: agree with you that VFO is a funnyt name. Why is it not VFOA, > so >> > that AI Squared is acknowledged. >> > >> > In polite company: VFO stands for "very frustrating organisation" and > in >> > less genteel gatherings, substitute frustrating for another > adjective. >> > >> > >> > Vaughan. >> > >> > >> > >> > -----Original Message----- >> > From: Talk >> > > [mailto:[email protected]] On >> > Behalf Of Don Smith via Talk >> > Sent: Thursday, 2 February 2017 5:26 p.m. >> > To: 'Window-Eyes Discussion List' >> > Subject: Just in passing >> > >> > Hi Folks: >> > >> > First, I think fo is the strangest name for a company that I have > ever >> > heard. >> > >> > >> > >> > However, I called the other day to purchase a cd with win eyes on it > and >> > although, it seemed they were a little muddled at first, but, then > put me >> > on to another person. >> > >> > They were busy and I left a message re my request thinking would they > take >> > care of it. >> > >> > Well got a call today and all is ok, the cd is being sent and that is > to >> > Canada >> > >> > Don >> > >> > >> > >> > _______________________________________________ >> > Any views or opinions presented in this email are solely those of the >> > author and do not necessarily represent those of Ai Squared. >> > >> > For membership options, visit >> > > http://lists.window-eyes.com/options.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com/vaughan.dodd00 > 1%40msd.govt.nz. >> > For subscription options, visit >> > http://lists.window-eyes.com/listinfo.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com >> > List archives can be found at >> > http://lists.window-eyes.com/private.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com >> > >> > ------------------------------- >> > This email and any attachments may contain information that is >> > confidential and subject to legal privilege. 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