Tom, you have a handful of interesting points. Olusegun, dreams sometimes have been the driver for new inventions. Or, what about a Mr Edison, or Mr Ford. They both dreamed - totally unrealistic from the stand of the days - and still, sure changed the lives of most people today. Smiles. Even Louis Braille did have ilutions. And where would many of us have been, did he give up?
Difference is, that they forgot about what was already, and started anew; right from scratch. - Forget about the oil in the lamp, let's have some human hair inside a glass container, and put some electricity to it - we might just happen to get some enlightenment. - Forget about all those horses. Let's go get some gasolin, then give the whole thing some electricity - and grandma can have a ride up the steepest hill. - Forget every idea about raised versions of printed letters. Bring a punch from daddy's saddle-maker shop, a piece or two of paper, and leave me alone for the summer vacation. When you see the leaves turn colorful of autumn - here I am going to show you a brand new dotted alphabet. Like Tom stated, Windows is such basically a different beast from Android, or even Apple software - that it would be close to technically impossible to bring the screen reader we have come to enjoy, directly over to the new platform. Furthermore, cellphones, tablets, pads or whatever fancy names they want for their pocket-filler - they all are mobile devices. They are manufactured, even developed, for being products for "on the go" usage; nothing more. Like Tom indicated, reason why they have become so popular, likely is because many people now aday always is on the go - hence the device fits their daily living. But even the most energic geeks, will run into situations where they won't have enough from their mobile device. Did you ever see a server-park, run all from IPads? One thing that I have realized, after trying to learn the Android platform of my cellphone, is the lack of keys. Oh yeah, of course when you want to write something. But what about when you want to control the screen reader? On our PC, whether you use one or the other screen reader, it is a matter of using a couple of keys simultaneously. On the cellphone? Hmm, you are left to do all kinds of more or less intuitive crickle-crackles with your fingers, HOPING that you ended up doing it right. I don't find that very productive. And, even with a keyboard connected - half the time you have to perform certain commands onscreen, due to the fact of it all not being fully keyboard controlable. Tom's point about the developers behind the operating system, and their reluctancy in letting app developers reach deep enough into the code, is quite a show-stopper. The fact that they even let any app run, without all controls on the screen being labelled, is yet another. The whole idea of making a complete system, fully and basically relying on people pegging on a screen, simply never made too much sense to me. What I can do in a matter of seconds on my computer, will take multiple of time on a mobile device; become how good at it you ever want. Have you ever seen anyone - sighted - being able to type the same fast on a touch-screen device, that they could on a full-sized computer keyboard? A few - rather basic businesses - will be able to run all their activity from one of these devices. Still, ask yourself how come that you go to the bank office, the air port check-in, the police station, the public office of any services, the library helpdesk - well you finish the list - and yet, you hardly see any of them performing their business day off a touch-screen device. If these were such great tools, that everyone tell them to be, it sure puzzles why they are not being used more in such cases. The simpler answer to the whole thing, is the productivity, as well as the lack of capacity. A mobile device, which would hold the same speed, quality and technical standard as a computer? Hey, I wonder if it won't be pretty much the same heavy, clumsy, and power-consuming as a computer. Go ahead, invent the wheel all over; but be sure to make it circular this time. Smiles. Mobile devices were developed for mobile use, and will never become anything but that. Tom gave you the analogy of a truck compared to a family car. It is a good one. Though you could dream of selling your car, buying yourself an 18-wheeler - that you never would need worry how many teddybears your daughter wanted to bring along - you also will have to remember that the truck runs on diesel, and that gasolin on that tank will cause nothing but an aching wallet. Smiles. - A full-fledged screen reader on a mobile device? Yeah, maybe, if you enjoy frustrations and limited adaptability. You know, at least on Android, you cannot even redefine the gestures. Someone, who seems to have been born in a circus, has defined what gesture should make the speech do this or that. If for some reasons, you simply cannot get your fingers into that routine, hey heer your chances went down the drain, and are lost in the moonlight. :P Interestingly, recently it was told on the local radio, that 2018 might be the last top-year for the mobile devices we have filled our pockets with. Now, everyone is talking about the smart-speakers, like Alexa and Google Home. What would a Window-Eyes for such devices look like? How are you even going to navigate a website, like scrolling the frontpage of your local newspaper? In Window-eyes, we can use navigation keys to get to headings, links and edit boxes. Imagine the following set of commands for one of these speakers, when you want to check the special offers of the week, from your local grocery: Alexa, weekly offers of Safeway? Alexa, first product of the list. Alexa, next product; no, not that one; no not that either; goto next, goto next, goto next. Alexa, why don't you go to sleep? Which of course, would result in the speaker starting a lengthy lecture of the different states of sleeping, and a reminder of when it is proper not to sleep at all. Sorry, guys, but i am back on my computer. hahaha. On 8/29/2018 6:19 PM, Tom Kingston via Talk wrote: > Olusegun, > There's nothing wrong with wishing. But it will never happen. > The fact that FS has the Window-Eyes code is actually irrelevant. > Windows screen readers are too deeply integrated into the core of the > operating system. Window-Eyes is more like an extension to windows > than a standard program. So, in practical terms, there's little more > than its name that can be used to start at square one and write an > Android screen reader. While even the most simplest cross-platform > program works fine for the sighted mouse clicker they all cause > problems to varying degrees for us. And there's no such thing as > porting a program like Window-Eyes to another operating system. > Secondly, Android is a mobile operating system. And like iOS it, > relatively speaking, places enormous limitations on every developer in > order to get the most out of the least. So we will never have a mobile > screen reader with the power of Window-Eyes. It is an inherent > limitation of mobile operating systems. The more broad and powerful > features incorporated into a screen reader the greater its burden is > on the operating system. This is why these operating systems place so > many limitations on developers, i.e. they don't even possess a > fraction of the programmatic options Windows offers. > TalkBack and VoiceOver are both little more than the equivalent of > Window-Eyes browse mode. And "mode" is the key word here. Every > Windows screen reader is, at its core, two screen readers: one for > browse mode and another for everything else. > The demise of Window-Eyes pains me every day. While I thought it > always the best screen reader on the market, it's implementation of > scripting is the absolute gold standard. No other screen reader even > begins to compare with it in that regard. It is virtually unlimited. > But back to mobile operating systems. It's like trying to replace a > dump-truck with a compact car. Perhaps one day, after a few major > technological breakthroughs we'll get there. But right now the laws of > physics are being very uncooperative. > Unless your needs are fairly basic, I think trying to replace a full > blown computer with a mobile device will be frustrating at best. I > don't and never had had an Android device. But I fell prey to the iPad > hype the last time I would have purchased a new laptop. For the most > part, and I stress this is for my particular needs, it was a waste of > money. Even though I bought the top of the line iPad pro and Apple's > keyboard and case bundle, at the end of the day it's nothing more than > an iPhone without the phone. These devices are so popular because the > vast majority of users want to surf the web, use social media, email, > listen to music and podcasts, and keep a grocery list. So they're > perfectly satisfied. > I hope Android works out better for you. > Regards, > Tom > > > On 8/29/2018 8:01 AM, Olusegun -- Victory Associates LTD, Inc. via > Talk wrote: >> Dennis, I didn't say Window-Eyes is COMING to Android! Nonetheless, >> it is a >> wish and wishes have never been horses as there are far too many beggars >> ready to get on for the jolly ride. I am most certainly proud to be >> one of >> such beggars! If Window-Eyes for Android ever becomes a reality, >> then what? >> Nothing wrong with a wish, and you don't need to be overtly >> condescending if >> a wish does not align with your thought processes. >> >> Sincerely, >> Olusegun >> Denver, Colorado >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Any views or opinions presented in this email are solely those of the >> author and do not necessarily represent those of Ai Squared. >> >> For membership options, visit >> http://lists.window-eyes.com/options.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com/tom.kingston%40charter.net. >> For subscription options, visit >> http://lists.window-eyes.com/listinfo.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com >> List archives can be found at >> http://lists.window-eyes.com/private.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com >> > _______________________________________________ > Any views or opinions presented in this email are solely those of the > author and do not necessarily represent those of Ai Squared. > > For membership options, visit > http://lists.window-eyes.com/options.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com/trailerdavid%40hotmail.com. > For subscription options, visit > http://lists.window-eyes.com/listinfo.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com > List archives can be found at > http://lists.window-eyes.com/private.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com > . > _______________________________________________ Any views or opinions presented in this email are solely those of the author and do not necessarily represent those of Ai Squared. 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