See below PangoSE skrev: (20 augusti 2020 15:55:11 CEST) >It was certainly not a joke. The tags in OSM are IMO broken and cannot >handle the social complexity it tries to model. > >One of the biggest problems is missing references to on the ground >truth like e.g. images. >How would you e.g. state when you recorded a name from a sign and link >to the image? You could do it in the changeset information but that >means that anyone looking for the reference has to download/traverse >the whole history of the object and find the changeset that changed the >name. > >The problem with that is that it is nearly impossible to e.g. create a >script that e.g. check how many of our millions of names we have are >properly referenced with either an URL or a link to an image or a good >source like say the Swedish Geographical Survey Organizaion >(Lantmäteriet). >This means that the community is not able to easily judge whether the >names we have on objects today are actually real or on the ground truth >and it is also impossible to e.g. create a list of those that are not >referenced at all in your local area and look up references and add >them to the database. > >This is really bad IMO and a suboptimal way of designing a world wide >database handling cultural references and data about human objects >sourced from millions of individuals. I would go so far as to say that >ignoring this problem with missing references makes the names in the >whole database worthless to use and contribute to because it could just >be random joe next door sitting on a late night and adding/changing a >lot of crap names wi h a handful of new accounts to the database >objects and no-one regularly does QA-checks to see if it has any link >to reality. > >Additionally the tags and their changes over time is really hard to >follow on openstreetmap.org (it is much better in JOSM though). Thats >bad because it means less eyeballs to make sure we have correct >information. A wiki-like interface for all our metadata would solve >both these examples and for good reasons wikidata is not the right >place for this data, but a community run wikibase could probably work >just fine. > >WDYT? > >Dave F via talk <talk@openstreetmap.org> skrev: (20 augusti 2020 >14:35:21 CEST) >>Just caught up with this thread, & I'm unsure if it's a joke. >> >>If there are any problems/disagreements with names in OSM then surely >>the same problem occurs in Wikiland? >> >>DaveF. >> >> >>On 09/08/2020 09:25, pangoSE wrote: >>> I suggest we create a roadmap for deprecating of storing and >updating >> >>> names in OSM for objects with a Wikidata tag. >>> >>> The rationale is explained here: >>> https://josm.openstreetmap.de/ticket/19655 >>> >>> This of course affects the whole project and data consumers as well. > >>> Every OSM user will have to become a Wikidata user as well to edit >>the >>> names or add name references (through the editors) >>> >>> Substantial changes will have to be made: >>> * nominatim will need to support fetching names from wikidata >>somehow. >>> It could probably be done on the fly. >>> * openstreetmap.org will need to fetch from wikidata when displaying > >>> any object. >>> * rendering the standard map will have to support fetching from >>wikidata. >>> * all editors would have to fetch and enable editing of Wikidata >>objects. >>> * maybe it no longer makes sense to have 2 separate logins? We >should >> >>> unify the logging in as much as possible. Ideas are welcome on how >to >> >>> do that. Perhaps retire signing up as OSM user on osm.org and ask >>> users to create a Wikimedia account instead and log in with that? >>> >>> I personally don't see any problems connecting Wikimedia and OSM >>> closer than the islands they are today. >>> >>> As mentioned in the ticket above data consumers like Mapbox already >>> prefer Wikidata names. I'm guessing thats because they are simply >>> better quality, better modeled, better referenced and better >>protected >>> against vandalism. >>> >>> WDYT? >>> >>> Cheers >>> pangoSE >>> Ps I choose this list because this not only relates to tagging, but >>to >>> the wider ecosystem. >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> talk mailing list >>> talk@openstreetmap.org >>> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
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