On 20. aug. 2014, at 16:54, Aaron Falk <[email protected]> wrote:

> We have a problem that folks who have not been part of the discussion from 
> the beginning (like myself) need additional clarity when talking about 
> “support mechanisms”.  I’ve tried to add some in the descriptions of docs 2 
> and 3 but apparently it needs refinement.  The current charter says:
> 
>> 2) Note that not all capabilities of IETF Transport protocols need to be 
>> exposed as Transport Services. This document will recommend the minimal set 
>> of Transport Services for inclusion in the abstract API. The resulting 
>> document will also provide guidance on making a choice among available 
>> mechanisms and protocols to obtain a certain Transport Service. 
> 
> Some folks on the list have proposed the following alternative:
> 
>>> 2) Define the minimal set of Transport Services that must be provided by 
>>> mechanisms such as those to be specified in work item 3. The resulting 
>>> document will give guidance on choosing from available mechanisms and 
>>> protocols to provide a given Transport Service. Note that not all the 
>>> capabilities of IETF Transport protocols need to be exposed as Transport 
>>> Services.
> 
> The problem here is that we haven’t described what work item 3 is.  I’d 
> prefer a statement that stands on its own. If you don’t like my text above, 
> please propose something you like better.

Work item 3 is just the third item in the list, where the text you cite above 
is the 2nd item. If that isn't clear enough, we could replace the sentence 
above them:

The Working Group will:

with:

The Working Group will consider the following three work items:

In my opinion, the clearest version is in the charter that went to IETF open 
review:
***
- Specify the subset of those Transport Services, as identified in 
  item 1, that end systems supporting TAPS will provide, and give
  guidance on choosing among available mechanisms and protocols.
***

which you changed into the "work item 3" text on 26 July, i.e. during IETF open 
review, and documented in the diff file: "charter-diff-20140722e-20140726.pdf" 
that you sent to the list, and justified with:

"I've been working on a few changes that I think clarify the charter, 
particularly the document goals.  Since I wasn't part of the initial 
discussions I may have misunderstood where there is agreement.  For example, 
the role of the second document seems to be really about getting consensus on 
some requirements for the third."

I couldn't see any other input leading to this change. My suggestion would be 
to undo it.


> In the third doc I tried to be a little more concrete about what a “support 
> mechanism” is:
> 
>> 3) Specify experimental support mechanisms to provide the Transport Services 
>> identified in work item 2. This document will explain how to select and 
>> engage an appropriate protocol and how to discover which protocols are 
>> available for a given connection. Further, it will provide a basis for 
>> incremental deployment. The associated milestone will be scheduled and work 
>> on this document will begin when the TAPS Transport Services have been 
>> specified. 
> 
> 
> Trying to piece an alternate phrasing from the thread I get:
> 
>>> 3) Submit to the IESG an Experimental document exploring abstract 
>>> interfaces to Transport Services and defining an experiment to evaluate 
>>> such interfaces for incremental deployability.  The associated milestone 
>>> will be scheduled and work on this document will begin when the TAPS 
>>> Transport Services have been specified. 
> 
> This seems less concrete to me.  I like “select and engage protocols” but I’d 
> like to hear more input from the group.

What we did mean when we wrote this was "Happy Eyeballs ++". The Happy Eyeballs 
folks are on the list and have stated interest in continuing it here; there 
were ideas (all in the list archives..) on making it more scalable by using it 
later, i.e. no need to send out so much SYN-style traffic so fast; caching 
information; first asking the other side what protocols it supports to only 
test those that really must be tested. How to state this more clearly? Not 
sure. I think we were all quite happy with the "select and engage an 
appropriate protocol" sentence.

Cheers,
Michael

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