> On Apr 5, 2017, at 11:31 PM, Joe Touch <[email protected]> wrote:
> 
> 
> 
> On 4/5/2017 2:23 PM, Michael Welzl wrote:
>>> On Apr 5, 2017, at 10:33 PM, Joe Touch <[email protected]> wrote:
>>> 
>>> Hi, Michael,
>>> 
>>> 
>>> On 4/5/2017 1:10 PM, Michael Welzl wrote:
>>>>> On Apr 5, 2017, at 9:55 PM, Joe Touch <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>>> ...
>>>>> Set_auth and get_auth are either in the STATUS (as per my previous
>>>>> message) or SEND/RECEIVE.
>>>> What’s the problem with defining new primitives for these things? It’s 
>>>> just an abstract API anyway.
>>> You can, but 5925 says "SEND or other" and "RECEIVE or other", i.e., it
>>> does say that the management of these parameters can be via
>>> SEND/RECEIVE, but doesn't have to be.
>> We seem to agree: see below -
>> 
>> 
>>>> I actually removed STATUS in my draft because of the following reasoning 
>>>> (quoting my own draft):
>>>> 
>>>> ***
>>>> The 'status' primitive was not included because [RFC0793] describes this 
>>>> primitive as
>>>> "implementation dependent" and states that it "could be excluded without 
>>>> adverse effect”.
>>> That was true back when 793 was created, but hasn't been true
>>> effectively since 1122.
>> Hmmm…. what about the whole block defined in RFC793? It tells you about 
>> rwnd, snd wnd, and strange stuff like security/compartment… where to draw 
>> the line?
> Having a "window" into what TCP is doing is nice, but not necessary.
> 
> Having a way to disable Nagle (or enable it, for that matter) is necessary.
> 
> I'd draw the line at "required" to make TCP work correctly.

Yes -


>> I guess by knowing what is actually happening in OS’es out there, for each 
>> of these items. That’s the quest I wasn’t going to take - this draft is 
>> based on the RFCs.
> 
> IMO, it's hard to scrub those RFCs for this info. There was a time when
> the IETF decided that APIs were out of scope and a lot of the info you
> need was ignored in RFCs, or at best pushed to "honorable mention".
> 
>> I’d also say that these things don’t matter much for a (minimal) TAPS system 
>> - for many of these things, exposing them creates an unnecessary dependency 
>> on the protocol.
> 
> I don't know what the requirements are for a minimal TCP system, so
> there's no way to answer that.

I don’t think the group ever agreed on any - so my statement was based on our 
(authors’) own rules, laid out in:
https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-gjessing-taps-minset 
<https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-gjessing-taps-minset>


> We ought to understand that for every protocol we design, but we don't.
> 
>>>> Moreover, while a data block containing specific information is described, 
>>>> it is also stated
>>>>  that not all of this information may always be available.
>>>> ***
>>>> 
>>>> Because a TAPS system should be able to rely on things that are available 
>>>> pretty much everywhere,
>>>> this draft doesn’t include things that are optional for an underlying 
>>>> transport to implement.
>>> Agreed - I'm saying that there MUST be a command by which some
>>> parameters of a connection can be monitored and altered after the
>>> connection is established but asynchronously from a SEND/RECEIVE call.
>>> 
>>> You might say that you could accomplish the result with a zero-byte SEND
>>> or nonblocking RECEIVE, but that's ugly from an API viewpoint.
>> Agree to both -
>> 
>> 
>>>>> There may be other signals that need to be specified. E.g., RFC1122 has
>>>>> a few items that need to be indicated, but isn't clear about them being
>>>>> only inside SEND/RECEIVE commands (e.g., see sections 4.1.4 and 4.2.4).
>>>> Exactly my point - disabling Nagle is one of these things. So I gave them 
>>>> names and call them primitives under “CONNECTION.MAINTENANCE”.
>>>> Shouldn’t matter, as long as the functionality is there?
>>> Oh, OK - then you would want to say that the keyID and nextkeyIDs fall
>>> under BOTH SEND/RECEIVE and the CONNECTION.MAINTENANCE section.
>> Exactly. Right now, the error is that the CONNECTION.MAINTENANCE primitive 
>> description says that this uses ‘send’ or ‘receive’. It shouldn’t.  I’ll 
>> note that for the next update (when I'll address more comments from WGLC), 
>> thanks!
> 
> AOK.
> Joe

Thanks!

Cheers,
Michael

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