I hear ya....I think going to a local old timey jam might be a better experience as a newbie of this genre than going to a festival first. Its unfortunate that mandolins are looked down on in old timey music. I found many of the jams sometime lost their timing while playing...sounds like a great place for the mando to keep time. When I started doing bluegrass I felt it was a cult with secret hand shakes. Several years later I don't feel that way, so I'm sure I'll be loving old timey soon enough. On Jan 20, 11:15 am, Mark Vaughan <[email protected]> wrote: > Hi everyone, > > I've been hanging out on the sidelines for a while now, but thought I'd > chime in on this topic since I was also at the Portland festival that Root > attended. Root, I agree with your observations about the festival to some > degree - the number of jams was kind of ridiculous. Literally every possible > jam space was filled to capacity. A couple of friends and I were looking to > jam on the Saturday afternoon, but it was physically impossible to find a > space that wasn't in the way or contaminated with bleed from other jams. > However, we were patient and eventually a prime spot opened up in the > kitchen and we had a great jam. > > In terms of "fitting in", I understand what you're saying, but just like > anything it takes some time to get to know the lay of the land and find your > place. I'm sure may of us have had experiences at bluegrass jams where > someone joins who doesn't know the protocol (in fact, most of us have > probably been that person at some point). It doesn't mean the person is a > jerk, a bad musician, etc, just that they are not familiar with the culture. > I agree that old timey folks can be snooty, but so can bluegrass folks. > Music is a form of communication, so your musical experience will partly > depend on the communication skills of those you're playing with. Regarding > the "unwashed halitosis" element, I understand why you might not feel like > you fit in there, but I'm sure a lot of people on the bluegrass scene were > saying the same things in the late 60's and 70's when Grisman, Rowan, > Greene, etc were breaking in. I gather that John Hartford was fond of saying > "There's nothing new under the sun." I think that certainly applies here. > > A few of things I have found helpful in those situations: > 1) If you can, try to have a group of folks that you're travelling with. > Instead of trying to join someone else's jam, you can start your own and > sort of shape the vibe of the jam. > 2) Try to strike up some conversation with folks who aren't jamming. If you > get to know them a little bit, you can make a connection and get a foot in > the door for some jamming. > 3) Be patient. Old time jams tend to be constructed in a hierarchy of > circles, with a core of people driving the jam. You'll probably start out on > the fringes, but if you hang in there and show good taste, you can make it > in there. It's annoying playing to someone's back, but that's often the way > it is. > > As Mike said earlier, it's particularly difficult for a mandolin player in > the old time world. Not too many folks will get excited about having a > mandolin player join their jam, but they'll happily welcome more and more > fiddles and banjos. In my opinion, it's revisionist to have that mentality, > as lots of early string bands had mandolins. I think it stems from an "us > vs. them" mentality. Old time players usually agree strongly on one thing: > they don't play bluegrass. Mandolins, particularly the F5 variety, raise > their hackles a bit because they're so strongly associated with bluegrass. > Fair enough, but again, it's a matter of learning about how to play the > music, rather than trying to force the square bluegrass peg into the round > old time hole. Aggressive chop chords will often turn people off in that > setting because they mess with the groove. Lots of other folks have chimed > in on what it is to play old time mandolin. I'm no expert, but in my > experience, it's almost all in the right hand (just like bluegrass). If you > can pick up on the timing of the tune and make your right hand work with > that, it doesn't matter much what you do with your left hand (melody, block > chords, open chords, doublestops, etc). So much of old time music is about > creating this groove, almost like a musical machine. If you can contribute > to that in a positive way, people will usually be happy to have you. > > Anyway, those are my long-winded comments. Old time music can be a lot of > fun, but it just takes time and patience to find where you fit in. I really > enjoy both bluegrass and old time and find that playing in one style can > improve my playing in the other. I'm glad to see that there are so many > folks on this list who appreciate both styles, along with a lot of other > stuff. > > Mark > > On Wed, Jan 20, 2010 at 8:18 AM, sgarrity <[email protected]> wrote: > > I got to play in a old-time jam last night in Pegram, TN. It wound up > > being 3-4 fiddles, a guitar, a tenor guitar, and 3 mandolins, all oval > > holes. It was mighty cool to get to pick with Alan O'Bryant playing > > mando. Who knew?? Anyway......rhythm wise I played open chords, > > double stops, some chop chords, some tremolo, lots of melody......it > > all sounded good and no one raised an eye brow. The tenor player was > > doing mainly sock-style rhythm which worked really, really well. It > > was a great jam and the folks couldn't have been nicer and more > > accepting of the stranger with the mandolin. And the best > > part......no banjos!! 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