Hello Andy,
On 14 Dec 2001 at 19:25:06 you wrote (at least in part):
>> I don't know if I'm one of these 'experts' called.
AS> I suppose you are one of the programmers, right?
Nope. Wrong.
>> You I think you will argue with me, this _is_ a complex thing
>> you'd like to see realized.
AS> I'll give it a try. :-)
AS> I don't see why that would be so difficult. The only challange is to
AS> "merge" the headers of the mails being replied to. Why is that so
AS> difficult?
Because it is not only 'merging' headers. Take three mails from three
different sender with three different subjects sent on three different
time with three completely different contents.
There's a lot you have to merge and it should be at least in a logical
way merged, not 'somehow'. But what is _THE_ logic behind? Everybody
would like to have it a little bit different, for good reasons ... No
tell the common?!
>> Does anybody screaming out this nice phrase about 'configure
>> everything' has have some few thought about what _configuring
>> everything_ means?
AS> Yep, I sure do know what I am talking about. Since many years I am mainly
AS> using Unix and I think the many configuration options are one of THE
AS> strength of all unix programs.
And not all programs are this configurable as many people want it from
The Bat!. I'm not new to *nix too. It's my daily work, so I assume I
can guess very well what you're pointing on, but there's a big
difference between what's configurable in *nix programs and what is
requested to be configurable e.g. in TB!.
AS> If there's something I don't like or like
AS> different, I'll simply configure it differently. :-)
That depends ...
>> Not only you have to double or triple the development time for having as
>> much as possible configurable, no ... you also double or triple time for
>> bug finding, human error detecting because everybody has it's own system.
AS> That's true, but _only_ in the non-public-domain world. Open up your
AS> source code and the whole world will help you find the bugs.
One simple question: do you really believe the world could exist with
only source opened software? Hardly ... So this is not an argument.
AS> Well, I guess that's a little off topic now. Just wanted to
AS> mention that your statements only apply to this part of the
AS> software world.
Some ... not all, but some.
>> It is quite _impossible_ to have the same function 'static' and in
>> conjunction with 'configure around 50-100 parameters as you like, all
>> effecting this function'.
AS> Impossible would mean that noone could do it, right?
AS> If that's correct, you are wrong. Take almost ANY unix mail client but
AS> especially mutt. It has so many configurable options you can hardly count
AS> them. And it works just great. So all but impossible. ;-)
With this statement you don't want to tell me there's nothing in mutt
that ain't configurable, don't you?
Counter wise: You don't want to say The Bat! ain't configurable, don't
you? Should I really need to start counting _what_ there is you can
configure and shall I really start to compare it to several other
MUA's available for Windows? I think I don't need to, The Bat! should
speak for it self and everybody using it should have no problem
recognizing it ...
>> Everybody that listened in mathematic lessons only 1% of time should
>> know: the more options/parameters the bigger the amount of possible
>> results.
AS> I agree. So all what you need here is more people that participate in
AS> testing and bug finding. That too is mathematics: the more testers the
AS> less bugs. :-)
Wrong. OK ... Partial right ... More testers _can_ lead to lesser
count of bugs. But you'll need testers that
1.) Have the time and ability to test the program for _daily usage_
and not only 'for principal of function', because a bug free,
functional working program is worth nothing without usability and a
need for in in (daily) work.
2.) Are able and professional enough to provide you with detailed
information about found bugs. An information 'the program hangs when I
try to send mail' ain't very useful. You'll need to know several
parameters necessary to reproduce the problem and fixing it.
A pure mass of people can provide only 'quantity' not inherited
'quality'.
>> We this end we all can see and marvel in dozens of wonderful
>> products from Redmond:
AS> No,no,no,no, please don't compare ANY software with the huge bugs MS is
AS> spreading out over the world. Anyone can do better than Gates&Co.
No ... don't be this polemically. They _can_ do better. It's the
'wrong' (?) philosophy behind their company. It's a 'everything can be
done at a click' and a wrong understood 'release early and often'
philosophy. They do make normal end users to Beta-Tester plus they
don't even tell them _and_ let the very same people even pay for the
products. This does not inherit every programmer at MS is plainly to
stupid for writing good software.
AS> Hm, small you say. Fine, one more time my comparison with mutt:
AS> I just counted the diskspace of it:
AS> 523 KB
AS> Okay, including all used dynamic libraries which doesn't make much sense,
AS> but what the heck:
AS> 2.3 MB
AS> Then I counted the diskspace used by TheBat directory (subtracting the Mail
AS> directory of course):
AS> 7 MB
AS> (I have no idea what other DLLs TheBat uses so I couldn't add that)
OK. Some things we don't want to forget:
1.) you don't want to compare Delphi & C in code size. Not even
'Kylix' and C ...
2.) As much as I love mutt: it ain't provided with a GUI. And ncurses
con't count as 'graphical' to me. It's fast, reliable, small, as
graphical as you can expect it to be in a command line without
using the big overhead of framebuffers, but it ain't a graphical
client.
3.) The only thing you need for running The Bat! from it's program
directory is: 'thebat.exe' with a size of (current Beta) 4 and a
quarter MByte. The rest is (evil said) 'bells and whistles'. A
help file, maybe PGP dll's spell checker, MAPI.dll, uninstaller.
Compared to mutt's 523k this ain't _this_ fat as you wanted to
show.
As we're going straight OffTopic I'd suggest a
f-up2: <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]> :-)
Ciao Pit
--
Regards
Peter Palmreuther mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
(The Bat! v1.54 Beta/15 on Windows NT 5.0 Build 2195 Service Pack 2)
Oh, wow! Look at the moon!
--
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