Results of post to debian-devel (so far) attached. Serious concerns hinge
around the question 'why?' (from debian's POV - i.e. not the cover traffic
argument). Any good suggestions not already covered?
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The road to Tycho is paved with good intentions
>From toad Thu Dec 13 00:30:12 2001
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Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2001 00:28:36 +0000
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Packages fields
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Would it be possible to add an additional field per package in the Packages
file, which looks like this:
Freenet: CHK@L4mWBrou4o9RLhH71iew10zy4IAPAwI,sl3g1Cxz~xVOHb4w2SpNsA
(always exactly that length).
It is a hash of the file, distinct from MD5; Freenet can't use MD5 or any other
regular hash for various reasons. It can be determined without reference to
the network; it is several times slower than MD5. It would be very helpful for
apt-get-over-freenet. What would be involved in putting it in, is that even
possible? When is the MD5 field calculated (or checked) ? It only needs to be
in on actual distributed Packages files.
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The road to Tycho is paved with good intentions
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>From toad Thu Dec 13 10:39:35 2001
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Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2001 19:38:25 +0900
From: Junichi Uekawa <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: toad <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
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Subject: Re: Packages fields
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On Thu, 13 Dec 2001 00:28:36 +0000
toad <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Would it be possible to add an additional field per package in the Packages
> file, which looks like this:
> Freenet: CHK@L4mWBrou4o9RLhH71iew10zy4IAPAwI,sl3g1Cxz~xVOHb4w2SpNsA
> (always exactly that length).
I think it should be possible to add
X-Freenet:
regards,
junichi
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>From toad Thu Dec 13 11:39:02 2001
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Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2001 12:22:08 +0100 (CET)
From: Santiago Vila <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: toad <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
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Subject: Re: Packages fields
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toad:
> When is the MD5 field calculated (or checked) ?
It's calculated by dpkg-scanpackages or apt-ftparchive at the master
server archive, ftp-master.debian.org, and it's checked by dpkg and
friends at install time. Don't know what freenet is, but I fail to see
why would you need yet another hash.
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>From toad Thu Dec 13 13:09:17 2001
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Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2001 13:05:30 +0000
To: Santiago Vila <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
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Subject: Re: Packages fields
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On Thu, Dec 13, 2001 at 12:22:08PM +0100, Santiago Vila wrote:
> toad:
> > When is the MD5 field calculated (or checked) ?
>
> It's calculated by dpkg-scanpackages or apt-ftparchive at the master
> server archive, ftp-master.debian.org, and it's checked by dpkg and
> friends at install time. Don't know what freenet is, but I fail to see
> why would you need yet another hash.
See http://freenetproject.org/index.php?page=whatis for an official
explanation.
We use another hash because when you are downloading files from untrusted
nodes, you need to be able to verify that you are downloading the right file,
before you download all 20M of it (worst case scenario for debian packages).
Freenet uses progressive hashes that allow us to verify the file at every 4kB
block (with 20 bytes/block overhead). It is also gratuitously encrypted in
order to protect the owners of datastores from legal liability for whatever
illegal junk others have inserted (the CHK is actually CHK@<progressive hash
of encrypted file>,<decryption key>. The decryption key is derived from the
hash of the unencrypted file. All hashes are SHA-1, encryption is Rijndael
(which is rather fast). Apt-get-over-freenet is or could be useful because it
would save a large amount of bandwidth on various centralised ftp servers,
downloading only the Packages file from ftp.debian.org or a reliable mirror
and then getting the rest from Freenet. It would also speed up downloads over
fast links through downloading several packages at once from different nodes,
many of which also on cable/DSL.
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>From toad Thu Dec 13 16:51:02 2001
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From: Jules Bean <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
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Subject: Re: Packages fields
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On Thu, Dec 13, 2001 at 01:05:30PM +0000, toad wrote:
> would save a large amount of bandwidth on various centralised ftp servers,
> downloading only the Packages file from ftp.debian.org or a reliable mirror
> and then getting the rest from Freenet. It would also speed up downloads over
> fast links through downloading several packages at once from different nodes,
> many of which also on cable/DSL.
This is of doubtful benefit in many countries. For example in the UK
(which you appear to be from if your email address is any guide) there
exist mirrors which can saturate any connection I've ever had. And
those same mirrors are unlikely to complain about the bandwidth hit
anytime soon, as far as I can determine.
I could believe it would be an advantage in less well-connected
countries (NZ?) though.
Jules
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