On Mon, 2018-11-12 at 12:38 -0500, Brian Callahan wrote:
On 11/12/18 11:20 AM, John Long wrote:
On Mon, 2018-11-12 at 06:57 +0000, Jason McIntyre wrote:
On Sun, Nov 11, 2018 at 07:36:55PM -0500, Brian Callahan wrote:
Hi tech --
Reminded by the recent email to tech@ about
calendar.christian, I
took a look at syncing calendar.judaic.
This diff does the following:
1. Sync the holiday days that are not connected to Pesach,
which
on
our calendar is Chanukah, Fast of 10 Tevet, and Yom
Yerushalayim.
I am not sure what this means. All of the Jewish holidays move on
the
civil calendar year to year. However, since every time the
calendar
includes an additional month (a second Adar) the month is inserted
before Pesach; therefore the holidays which fall after that time
do
not move *relative to Pesach* but they do move on the civil
calendar.
What are you talking about? This is in reference to the code in
calendar(1) that sets the dates for the Judaic calendar. If you
think
there's something wrong there, I await your patch to
usr.bin/calendar/pesach.c
I haven't seen the code. I responded to the comment that "days are not
connected to Pesach." All Jewish holidays are connected to Pesach, it
is one of the points from which years are calculated. And my statement
above and the explanation how it works is correct as I wrote it.
So what are you talking about? Exactly what did I write that you are
disputing here?
Yes, I know how the Hebrew calendar works. mickey@'s calculation is
actually quite nice IMO.
2. Add the holidays that are explicitly mentioned on the
Wikipedia
page of Jewish holidays, which adds Tu B'Shevat to our
calendar.
3. Replace the year marker on Rosh Hashana with the current
Jewish
year (5741 => 5779). This calendar has to be updated yearly as
it
is anyway, so it seems odd to me not to put the current year
if
we're going to list a year in connection with Rosh Hashanah.
It looks like mickey@ removed Yom HaAtzmaut some years ago due
to
the understanding that this be a religious and not secular
calendar. Which is a perfectly legitimate stance, as there is
no
universal yes or no as to whether or not the Israeli
rememberance
holidays are religious holidays, both in Israel and in the
dispora.
There is. Yom Hatzmaut, Yom HaShoah, Yom Hazikaron, Yom
Yerushalayim
are all Israeli (civil) holidays not connected to the Jewish
religion.
Reform Judaism and Conservative Judaism (in the US, at least) both
treat
Yom HaShoah as a religious holiday, with both crafting prayers
specifically for the holiday and with Conservative Judaism writing a
new
liturgy for the day.
If the calendar we are talking about is supposed to be representative
of mainstream Jewish belief and practice which has remained the same
for the past 3,500 years then those demominations will need their own
calendars.
This is considered so "common knowledge" that Wikipedia has a whole
section on it:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yom_HaShoah#Religious_observances_and_liturgy
This is no proof of anything except activism which isn't
representative of the Jewish religion.
Additionally, there is no reason that calendar.judaic cannot be both
a
religious and secular calendar. mickey@ clearly had reasons for
preferring to it to be religious only but I can't go ask him his
reasoning for it. So my question is whether or not people prefer
one
over the other. I slightly prefer it to be both religious and
secular
but I care more about the dates being maintained so am willing to
go
either way.
I have no preference either, since I don't use it, rather I use
calendars from reliable sources and I have also written my own which
aligns with those. Again, I was responding to what Jason wrote.
Regardless, some of the holidays mentioned are Jewish, some are
Israeli. There is no overlap.
So we either need to remove Yom Yerushalayim for the same
reason,
or add back Yom HaAtzmaut, and add Yom HaShoah and Yom
Hazikaron.
Doesn't matter to me either way. It might be nice to include
Yom
HaShoah in either event, as it is likely to become a universal
Jewish religious holiday within our lifetimes.
That is absolutely not true. No major religious authority has ever
recognized any of the Israeli civil holidays.
This again is so not true that Wikipedia has a section on it:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yom_HaShoah#Religious_observances_and_liturgy
There is no major religious authority that has recognized any Israeli
holidays. And all the nonsense you find online or elsewhere doesn't
change 3,500 years of Jewish legal practice and thought. We simply
don't observe the Israeli innovations (in Israel) and they have no
meaning whatsoever to Jews.
But again, we can make the calendar religious and secular.
Right but then the name Judaic is no longer applicable.
You may disagree with the Reform and Conservative movement, but both
are
major religious authorities and normative Judaism.
No, that's where you're absolutely mistaken. Those movements have left
mainstream Jewish practice and belief and they are now separate
religions only loosely based on authentic Judaism.
Even the Israeli government rejects conversions and marriages peformed
by those groups. That says a lot... nobody can claim they are
practicing Judaism, not even a State with an agenda.
Whatever is decided
having Yom Yerushalayim by itself is the strangest of all
worlds.
And I'll volunteer to keep this calendar synced since I might
be
the only one who cares about it.
OK?
~Brian
morning.
if you're willing to do the work, i say go for it. i don;t have
enough
knowledge about dates/holidays to provide any useful feedback.
if you have any opinion on the .christian diff, please do reply.
i'm
about to as well, but again i just don;t have the knowledge to
deal
with this.
I can help with this. Contact me offline with any questions.
In the diff below I see some conflicts in terms of
transliteration.
There are two main communities of Jews and the transliterations
below
do not align with either one in all cases.
Honestly, the transliterations are fine. I'll write them all in
Yiddish
though if you have concerns.
That doesn't make any sense. The Yiddish words for these months are
the same as Biblical Hebrew and all Jews write them in the same way.
~Brian
The transliterations are not fine.
Pesach+185 Shmini Atzeres
is according to Ashkenazic tradition
while
+12/18* Fast of Asara B'Tevet
is according to Sephardic tradition
and others were not even transliterated such as
Pesach-31 Fast of Esther
So there are inconsistencies that should probably be resolved.
/jl
jmc
Index: calendar.judaic
==============================================================
====
=
RCS file:
/cvs/src/usr.bin/calendar/calendars/calendar.judaic,v
retrieving revision 1.5
diff -u -p -r1.5 calendar.judaic
--- calendar.judaic 6 Sep 2005 23:42:59 -0000 1.5
+++ calendar.judaic 12 Nov 2018 00:11:04 -0000
@@ -7,7 +7,7 @@
#ifndef _calendar_judaic_
#define _calendar_judaic_
-Pesach+163 First Day of Rosh Hashanah (Jewish Lunar New
Year;
5741 == 1980;
+Pesach+163 First Day of Rosh Hashanah (Jewish Lunar New
Year;
5779 == 2018;
sabbatical)
Pesach+164 Rosh Hashanah (sabbatical)
Pesach+166 Fast of Gedalya (Murder of Gedalya and
subsequent
Exile; fast day)
@@ -17,8 +17,9 @@ Pesach+179 Succot (sabbatical)
Pesach+184 Hoshanah Rabba (7th day of Succos)
Pesach+185 Shmini Atzeres (8th Day of Gathering;
sabbatical)
Pesach+186 Shmini Atzeres/Simchas Torah (Rejoicing of the
Law;
sabbatical)
-12/12* First Day of Chanukah
-12/27* Fast of Asara B'Tevet (Babylonians put siege on
Jerusalem; fast day)
+12/03* First Day of Chanukah
+12/18* Fast of Asara B'Tevet (Babylonians put siege on
Jerusalem; fast day)
+01/20* Tu B'Shevat (New Year of the Trees)
Pesach-31 Fast of Esther (Battle of Purim; fast day)
Pesach-30 Purim (Feast of Lots)
Pesach-29 Purim (Feast of Lots)
@@ -27,10 +28,10 @@ Pesach+1 Pesach (sabbatical)
Pesach+6 Pesach (sabbatical)
Pesach+7 Pesach (Last Day of Passover; 8th day of
Pesach;
sabbatical)
Pesach+34 Lag Ba`omer (Commemoration of the Great
Rebellion)
-05/22* Yom Yerushalayim (Reunification of Jerusalem)
+06/01* Yom Yerushalayim (Reunification of Jerusalem)
Pesach+50 Shavuot (Festival of Weeks; sabbatical)
Pesach+51 Shavuot (Festival of Weeks; sabbatical)
-07/10* Fast of Shiv'a Asar B'Tammuz (Romans breach Wall of
Jerusalem; fast day)
+07/21* Fast of Shiv'a Asar B'Tammuz (Romans breach Wall of
Jerusalem; fast day)
Pesach+81 Fast of Tish'a B'Av (Babylon destroys Holy
Temple;
fast day)
#endif /* !_calendar_judaic_ */
