I have spoken to people who maintain and defend FM. I have to say that I am not at all in their camp. Purely personally I consider DAB to be far far superior to FM. Many of my radios have FM and DAB capacity and I would never listen to the FM version of a station, given the choice. FM is only used if there is no or a poor DAB signal. Until you hear the same station on FM and DAB and can switch between the two instantly to compare you do not really realize how superior and clearer the DAB signal is.
These views are formed by using Pure Evoke, Pure Move and Pure Pocket dab 1000 and Pocket dab 1500 radios. I have also used a technica radio, forgot the model number and another earlier DAB radio about 10 years ago which did not perform at all well as it was early technology. All the Pure products performed well however. All apart from the evoke and pocket Dab 1000 had FM capacity. I have used various Roberts FM radios and a Phillips Tuner ,not sure of the model, and whilst these are admirable products none of the FM output achieved anything like DAB quality. With a good signal I would personally struggle to distinguish a DAB broadcast from a CD player. So with my Philips tuner/amplifier I would get a superior quality even if I plugged a small portable pocket dab in as an alternative radio device. I bought another pocket dab 1500 for my wife this morning for £64.95 post free this morning as she has used one for I think 5 years daily and now the battery has run out. Given a replacement battery will cost over £30 with postage on top I decided to invest in a whole new device. She loved the old pocket dab so it seemed a no brainer to get her another one for Christmas. Regards David Griffith -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of David McLean Sent: 25 November 2011 19:33 To: Techno-Chat ... Technology Enthusiasm! Subject: Re: Yamaha TSX-140, initial impressions I am curious about the sound quality of a DAB broadcast. I am in the good old commercial US so we have IBOC instead which is wedged into the existing FM signal and doesn't really sound any better than the analog FM signal. I've heard DAB is supposed to sound much better. Is that true? On Nov 25, 2011, at 11:20 AM, Dane Trethowan wrote: > Howdy! > > Not sure of the exact frequency range of our DAB+ band but I know you'll find it if you were to look between 130-300MHZ, it occupies some of the space used by our old Analogue TV signals. > > I didn't think such high frequency bands had the problems you explained but I'm sure you're right, all the DAB+ sets I have suffer from this problem to a degree but the Yamaha is by far the worst affected. > > I'm sure you're right about the cut of the antenna too, the Yamaha Hi-Fi tuner I have has 3 antenna connections, 1 for DAB+, 1 for FM and 1 for AM which makes a great deal more sense but then again the Yamaha tuner on its own was worth more than the Yamaha systems were' talking about. > > As I understand it, the Yamaha sorts by numbers in a track name, I wasn't aware that the Yamaha even supported playlists, your model may do but I'm not sure mine does. > > Mine certainly doesn't support the syncing of an iPhone or iPod. > > > On 26/11/2011, at 2:44 AM, Gordon Smith wrote: > >> Hi Dane and all >> >> I'm going to do this in Lynne style, as it'll make things easier. >> >> On 25 Nov 2011, at 14:23, Dane Trethowan wrote: >> >> Howdy and good to see you round again. >> >> It's great to be back in the land of the living. >> >> I have the model of Yamaha below yours and would like to comment on your observations. >> >> Feel free >> >> Not being picky but as I understand it Yamaha call these systems "Desktop Systems", "Micro Systems" are different, they usually have a centre piece that contains the amp and all the other bits and pieces with a speaker on the left and right whereas - as you've noted - the Yamaha has everything including speakers in the one neat box. >> >> The description on the Yamaha UK website of this model is that it is a "Micro System", and it also describes it as "Desktop" audio. >> >> So, it seems that Yamaha have cheapened the construction of the TSX-140? My TSX-130 has actually got a wooden teak top with a plastic bottom and you can verify this easily enough. >> >> >> I was wrong about that. Lynne and I had a good look at it and it's actually wood, not plastic. It isn't teak though, it looks more like chipboard type material to me. But I was wrong about it being plastic, that's for sure. >> >> At the rear of the wooden top each side are a series of wholes in the case which make up bass reflex ports, put your finger into one of these and you can feel where the wood hasn't been polished so that's how I know with mine. >> >> Nothing like that on mine. >> >> You'll also note that the speakers themselves are in separate cabinets, that is to say if you took the top of your Yamaha you'd see 2 boxes either side of the cabinet, these sealed boxes contain the speaker drivers and possibly other components, according to the review I read more than 12 months ago which prompted me to buy my unit, these boxes also contain acoustic echo chambers which help - so the review says - give the Yamaha its amazing sound. >> >> Yes, I noticed that. They are two-way speakers in acoustic chambers as you say, and actually the construction is extremely well thought out. You can definitely hear the difference in audio in comparison to, for instance, Lynne's brother Steve's Sharp micro system which sounds positively dull by comparison. Steve will be impressed i think when he comes over to see this. >> >> Absolutely right about the sensitivity of the FM tuner in fact I'd go so far as to say that the FM tuner is next to useless where I am, I reckon you'd have to be sitting right next door to a transmitter. >> >> I am sure that's mostly due to the antenna, to be honest. And that is my only major quibble about this unit. Why on earth Yamaha opted to use a common antenna system for FM and DAB when even in your country, although the frequencies are different, the FM band is from 88 to about 108 MHZ. As I understand it, your DAB+ broadcasts are using the 1.6 to 2.0 MHZ frequency band, (correct me if I'm wrong), because I'm not entirely sure about that. >> >> Ours use much higher frequencies, (I'd have to check those to be sure because I can't quite remember). But I seem to remember reading that it's about 5.8 GHZ. But my point here is how on earth can you expect a common antenna to resonate at two such very different frequency bands, regardless of whether it's over in Australia or over here. >> >> The antenna provided is nothing but a wire dipole and looking at it, it's cut for the digital bands in the UK. >> >> FM, being at a far lower frequency band, needs a far larger antenna to be resonant and I think that the reason FM is so very very deaf is is because the antenna isn't cut for that band. >> >> Therefore, Yamaha should have used twin antenna inputs, one for FM and one for DAB. I'm not a designer, and I'm not sure how they've designed the receivers themselves. But it sounds to me as though the FM receiver is only a single heterodyne receiver which, in itself, is a disadvantage. So all in all I'd say that the tuner is the weakest part of this system. >> >> I haven't yet tried any other mode than the iPod dock, and I didn't sync the material. I'll do that. But on our model, when you sync the iPod or a computer running iTunes, I'm not sure how that works actually. Does it store the content onboard the Yamaha, or what? If not, where's the point in synchronisation? >> >> Also, on ours there's what looks like a HDMI socket on the back. But it isn't marked in the book and the socket itself isn't marked. Any idea what that's for? can't believe it's HDMI unless you can connect this thing to a surround sound receiver. >> >> DAB+ is a little on the deaf side and it took me forever to find a satisfactory angle for the antenna, on hot days the Yamaha DAB+ receiver has trouble pulling in DAB+ signals, don't ask me why but it does whereas my Roberts Ecologic 4 portable doesn't have a problem in the world when it comes to DAB+. >> >> I can explain that for you. The reason your receiver is having trouble like that is due to propagation. At the lower frequency bands, atmospherics play a very large roll in the reception of radio and TV signals. The lower frequency signals are far more prone to atmospherics than the higher frequency bands are. I totally understand why lower frequency bands are in use over there, your proximity is far greater from the transmitter than ours is. There are advantages and disadvantages to both systems actually. >> >> Creating MP3 CD'S is easy enough as is putting MP3 files on a USB drive, just organise them as you would on a computer, say 1 folder per album and you'll be able to navigate these on the Yamaha easily enough, pity there's no speech but if you know what you've put on a CD or drive then you have some idea what you're navigating <smile>. >> >> How does it handle track numbering? Does it use the iTunes format? >> Lynne said something about it organising playlists in alphabetical >> order which seems crazy. Album tracks are rarely organised in >> alphabetical sequence. :) >> >> Yeah! your bedside sounds exactly like mine, Squeezebox Boom and Yamaha have pride of place and each gets used often. >> >> I'm certainly not going to ditch the Boom. Actually the audio that comes out of that thing has to be heard to be believed. In the context of it being Internet audio I mean, but the audio sounds almost CD quality and, in fact, in comparison to some CD's I've heard, it's better quality. >> >> Gordon >> >> >> ======================================= >> >> The Techno-Chat E-Mail forum is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, >> virus and worm-free >> >> To modify your subscription options, please visit for forum's >> dedicated web pages located at >> http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/techno-chat >> >> You can find an archive of all messages posted to the Techno-Chat group at either of the following websites: >> >> http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/pipermail/techno-chat/index.html >> >> Or: >> <http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected]> >> you may also subscribe to this list via RSS. 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