Yes, I own one, I will get back to you guys off list, and I can agree with all 
of Gordon's points that he made before as well.

Sent from my iPhone

On Jul 29, 2013, at 2:54 PM, "Mrs. Lynnette Annabel Smith" 
<[email protected]> wrote:

> Hello Dane
> 
> Not entirely constructive comment this time. :)
> 
> you are correct though that it is pretty shameful but that's how it is. 
> Gordon and others I believe, at least one of whom works for HumanWare, have 
> lobbied for the next implementation of KeySoft to come equipped with an 
> up-to-date Email client. Alas, KeySoft 9.3 which runs under Windows CE 
> version 6.0 is still not ready to be called an up-to-date client in many 
> ways. In fact, HumanWare seems to be basking in their own glory because they 
> have released a web browser with all of the features found in Internet 
> Explorer. I wouldn't kick up much of a song and dance over that myself, since 
> we all know of the many security holes in that particular browser. Microsoft 
> is forever releasing security updates to try and fend off the potential for 
> threat. Are we truly to believe that HumanWAre's client is going to be 
> totally safe and secure? Somehow, I have my doubts and I think it's a matter 
> of almost criminal negligence given that the company charges not far short of 
> $5000 US for the BrailleNote Apex. We ourselves would dearly love to phase 
> out POP3 on our own servers, but we cannot do that until we are sure that all 
> of our users can connect to our servers effectively. We have a couple of 
> people using our services who use either BrailleNotes or VoiceNotes, and none 
> of them have been able to get the device working as yet. I am sure it isn't 
> just our servers with which they are having problems but I am not aware of 
> any way that I can test that out here as things stand. Our servers are, and 
> will always remain, secured for both incoming and outgoing mail. We believe 
> that having the servers set as open relays is not only inviting all spammers 
> to make hay while the sun shines, but would also be darn right irresponsible 
> and it would be tantamount to dropping our clients in the brown clarity stuff 
> and for sure, when the dust settled we would not be the one left wearing the 
> clean white suit. :)
> 
> Seriously though, without some kind of email service outside of our own 
> servers we cannot test to see if it is us who are doing something wrong with 
> the BrailleNote. I doubt it, since I know that Gordon has the user name, 
> email address and server addresses set correctly along with the ports and 
> other info. Gordon knows rather a lot about this sort of thing being a server 
> operator himself. He knows enough to be able to comment that the problem most 
> likely lies with the Apex itself rather than our servers which comply totally 
> with RFC standards and procedures.
> 
> I refuse in principle to set up a GoggleMail or Hotmail account. GoogleMail 
> is the cause of much strife to us because of their own sloppy procedures. 
> Microsoft is it would seem trying to clean up its act but still their free 
> services are being hammered by those with evil on their minds.
> 
> Anyway, if anybody else happens to have a BrailleNote, we plan to set up a 
> test account. In fact, if anybody else has any form of portable device like 
> this and they would like to do us a favour and test for us, please feel free 
> to get back to us off list and we will more than happily give you details of 
> how you can help. Particularly in the case of HumanWare, to whom we plan to 
> write a letter highlighting the issue, but also in the case of other 
> accessibility devices, we would very much like to know which devices will 
> work and which won't. Submitting that kind of data to HumanWAre themselves 
> might just make them wake up to the modern reality and instruct their 
> developers to push this issue to the top of their priority list for KeySoft 
> 9.4 or whatever they plan to call it.
> 
> I have a hunch that HumanWAre is probably the only company whose email client 
> is still restricted to POP3 and I really feel that their users should be 
> making a noise about this issue. POP3 is a protocol which was fine in the 
> early days of TCPIP, so I am told. But now that the world has changed and we 
> are all in need of secure services in which to conduct our emails, especially 
> those which contain sensitive information such as receipts and other personal 
> data, everybody has the right to expect that their providers provide a 
> service which is both efficient and secure. Sadly, it is still the case that 
> many providers don't require any authentication when a client logs on to 
> their email servers. Just imagine Amazon, Apple or Microsoft Stores based 
> around websites where the client doesn't have a password or key phrase to 
> protect themselves, or which doesn't employ security to transfer their 
> sensitive information like credit or debit card. I think the client would 
> probably kick up a fuss; and very rightly so. The same should be true of 
> email. Many people don't seem to give that a thought. They just set up their 
> client using the email server address and their log-in credentials. They 
> probably don't even realise that their emails are being transmitted totally 
> in the clear. Anybody monitoring the IP network (which I am told buy a lot of 
> people is a pretty simple thing to do these days) could gain access to quite 
> a lot of sensitive information that way.
> 
> We try but sadly not all providers do. Which leads me back to Gordon's 
> original question, all be it repeated. Does anybody else on list happen to 
> own a HumanWare BrailleNote or other similar accessibility designed device 
> and, if so, would they be willing to test for us??
> 
> Lynne
> 
> On 28 Jul 2013, at 21:14, Dane Trethowan <[email protected]> wrote:
> 
>> I don't own one of these machines so can't comment on the machine itself but 
>> what I can say is that Humen B Ware ought to be absolutely ashamed of 
>> themselves fo even giving you an eMail client that doesn't support iMap, 
>> just about every eMail client I can think of off the top of my head supports 
>> iMap of some sort and even Eudora going back 15 years ago I'm sure supported 
>> some form of iMap so its not as though iMap has just burst onto the scene, 
>> makes you wonder just how much else users of Braillenote products may be 
>> missing with Key Soft or is it Key botch.
>> 
>> 
>> On 29/07/2013 12:17 AM, Gordon Smith wrote:
>>> Hi all
>>> 
>>> Does anybody on list happen to own one of these machines, updated to 
>>> Keysoft 9.3 which was released earlier this month?  if so, I would very 
>>> much welcome a discussion with you regarding some weird problems I'm having 
>>> with the Apex.  Actually I have already told Humanware how poor I think 
>>> their E-Mail client, (known as "KeyMail" actually is).  KeyMail does not, 
>>> for instance, support any incarnation of IMAP which, without even trying, 
>>> rules out using it with iCloud or any other service which employs only 
>>> IMAP.  IMAP is definitely the way to go regarding mail.  POP3 should be 
>>> phased out, in my humble opinion.  But back to the point.  KeyMail is so 
>>> incredibly inflexible that, with a server which requires authentication on 
>>> sending E-Mail, the inability to define the type of authentication in use, 
>>> the fact that KeyMail doesn't support any other protocol than POP3 coupled 
>>> with a few other issues all go to make KeyMail the worst E-Mail client I 
>>> have ever tried to use, and that includes Microsoft Outlook Express.
>>> 
>>> KeyMail is really in need of a rewrite, in my view.  Although the commands 
>>> are logical as in they fit the general topology of KeySoft, it is sometimes 
>>> difficult to jump from one place to another quickly and, although you can 
>>> now kind of multitask using KeyMail and KeyWeb, along with KeyWord and 
>>> KeyPlan, there's still a great deal of work which I think the developers 
>>> could have done to make KeySoft an operating system worthy of calling a 
>>> modern environment.
>>> 
>>> The hardware specification of the Apex is kind of old-fashioned as well.  
>>> It has a 100MBPS Ethernet port, Wireless-A/B/G compatibility and only a 
>>> 512MHZ processor.  Officially, KeySoft only allows you to use a 32GB or 
>>> smaller format SD card.  However, I and others have used a pre-formatted 
>>> 64GB or even greater capacity SD card with goos success.  I have tried it 
>>> with a 64GB card and experienced no ill-effects whatsoever.  The Apex has 1 
>>> USB client port and 3 USB host ports.  This allows you to plug in, for 
>>> example, a USB memory stick, an embosser four Braille and a printer 
>>> simultaneously.  One of the nice things about KeySoft is its universal and 
>>> on-the-fly formatting.  For instance, if you have a document which you need 
>>> to print using an ink printer, and also which you would like to emboss 
>>> using any connected embosser, there is no need to modify your document's 
>>> format, as it is all done on the fly by the BrailleNote.  I haven't 
>>> personally tried this yet, but I plan to do so shortly.  But I have tried 
>>> playing around with a few documents and looking at the format structure.  
>>> The files look absolutely fine for embossing, all of the codes appear to be 
>>> perfectly valid.  Conversely, for printing using an ink printer, the format 
>>> appears to be perfectly correct.  Styles and other elements I have not yet 
>>> tested.  I play to do that shortly too.
>>> 
>>> Anyway, all this is really beside the point.  If anybody else out there is 
>>> using an Apex, may we have a discussion?  The above-mentioned would be my 
>>> starting point.  If you have had success with doing things like sending 
>>> authenticated mail, I'd love to know how you managed it because I simply 
>>> cannot get KeyMail to play at all on the sending side.
>>> 
>>> Regarding application extensions, As I understand it, developers of Windows 
>>> CE 6.0 extensions couldn't have their applications installed by the user 
>>> into KeySoft.  My understanding is that in order to implement extensions, 
>>> developers would need to comply with the very strict topology of KeySoft.  
>>> I can sort of understand that, but if only Humanware would invite 
>>> third-party developers to enable missing functionality, even with the 
>>> hardware restrictions we now have, KeySoft could be a far more powerful 
>>> piece of software engineering than it currently is.
>>> 
>>> HumanWare also charges astronomical prices for their KeySoft extensions, 
>>> and also their accompanying hardware.  Consider:  The Concise Oxford 
>>> Dictionary costs in excess of £100 GBP. The same thing on a Mac or a PC can 
>>> be purchased for just over 10% of that cost.  HumanWAre charges £25.00 for 
>>> a power cable to attach their power supply to the electrical wall outlet.  
>>> Consider, the same cables minus the rubber pull-out handle come supplied 
>>> with any old cassette recorder, radio, even video and hi-fi equipment.  
>>> HumanWare charges £45.00 for a spare battery for the Apex.  They also 
>>> charge £76.00 for what they term a "Deluxe" case.  The "Deluxe" case is now 
>>> a canvas cloth case instead of the old leather cases which used to come 
>>> supplied with the older models.  All this pricing astounds me to be honest.
>>> 
>>> Anyway, I would welcome comment from any other KeySoft users either 
>>> privately or on list.
>>> 
>>> Kind regards
>>> 
>>> <--- Gordon Smith --->
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> <[email protected]>
>>> 
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