Hi Josh I'll await your reply off list. However, I have been in contact with HumanWAre and they put me in touch with a developer. It seems that the developers don't consider IMAP a sufficiently important update to their mail client, and they don't plan on updating authentication either in the near future. So basically, I have a POP3 client which works, but an SMTP client which doesn't work. A fat lot of good I must say! Hopefully, having read my strongly but politely phrased response to their E-Mail, they might take a second look. I pointed out to them in no uncertain terms that other accessibility devices do have this functionality. They also allow third parties to develop extensions for their operating environment. HumanWare, it seems, does neither. Personally I am a little disgusted by their insular attitude. They also price themselves out of the market for some, as they charge over $100.00 USD for their Concise Oxford Dictionary application, and over $1000.00 USD for their GPS solution which goes with the Apex. This simply is not good economics, in my humble opinion. I wonder why their customers have tolerated this extortion for so long, to be perfectly truthful. This smacks of Microsoft all over again. HumanWare really need a wake-up, and the only realistic wake-up call they could receive would be by their customers protesting in bulk, and voting with their wallets, so to speak.
I am fortunate that I didn't personally have to pay for the Apex. It's still a fine unit in many respects. However, E-Mail is one of the core components in the operating environment and they simply haven't bothered updating it for years. Disappointing, to say the least. I guess I'm just going to have to use my iPhone and iPad for E-Mail away from the base location for some time to come. Kind regards <--- Gordon Smith ---> <[email protected]> Telephone: United Kingdom: Free Phone: 0800 8620538 Mobile: +44 7907 823971 Europe and other non-specified: +44 1642 688095 United States Of America And Canada: +1 646 9151493 Or: +1 209 436 9443 Vic. Australia: +61 38 8205930 Vic. Australia +61 39 0284505 Fax: +44 1642 365123 Follow Us On Twitter: <http://twitter.com/maciosaccess> Skype: <skype:mac-access-dot-net?call> ------------------------------ On 29 Jul 2013, at 21:35, Josh Gregory <[email protected]> wrote: > Yes, I own one, I will get back to you guys off list, and I can agree with > all of Gordon's points that he made before as well. > > Sent from my iPhone > > On Jul 29, 2013, at 2:54 PM, "Mrs. Lynnette Annabel Smith" > <[email protected]> wrote: > >> Hello Dane >> >> Not entirely constructive comment this time. :) >> >> you are correct though that it is pretty shameful but that's how it is. >> Gordon and others I believe, at least one of whom works for HumanWare, have >> lobbied for the next implementation of KeySoft to come equipped with an >> up-to-date Email client. Alas, KeySoft 9.3 which runs under Windows CE >> version 6.0 is still not ready to be called an up-to-date client in many >> ways. In fact, HumanWare seems to be basking in their own glory because they >> have released a web browser with all of the features found in Internet >> Explorer. I wouldn't kick up much of a song and dance over that myself, >> since we all know of the many security holes in that particular browser. >> Microsoft is forever releasing security updates to try and fend off the >> potential for threat. Are we truly to believe that HumanWAre's client is >> going to be totally safe and secure? Somehow, I have my doubts and I think >> it's a matter of almost criminal negligence given that the company charges >> not far short of $5000 US for the BrailleNote Apex. We ourselves would >> dearly love to phase out POP3 on our own servers, but we cannot do that >> until we are sure that all of our users can connect to our servers >> effectively. We have a couple of people using our services who use either >> BrailleNotes or VoiceNotes, and none of them have been able to get the >> device working as yet. I am sure it isn't just our servers with which they >> are having problems but I am not aware of any way that I can test that out >> here as things stand. Our servers are, and will always remain, secured for >> both incoming and outgoing mail. We believe that having the servers set as >> open relays is not only inviting all spammers to make hay while the sun >> shines, but would also be darn right irresponsible and it would be >> tantamount to dropping our clients in the brown clarity stuff and for sure, >> when the dust settled we would not be the one left wearing the clean white >> suit. :) >> >> Seriously though, without some kind of email service outside of our own >> servers we cannot test to see if it is us who are doing something wrong with >> the BrailleNote. I doubt it, since I know that Gordon has the user name, >> email address and server addresses set correctly along with the ports and >> other info. Gordon knows rather a lot about this sort of thing being a >> server operator himself. He knows enough to be able to comment that the >> problem most likely lies with the Apex itself rather than our servers which >> comply totally with RFC standards and procedures. >> >> I refuse in principle to set up a GoggleMail or Hotmail account. GoogleMail >> is the cause of much strife to us because of their own sloppy procedures. >> Microsoft is it would seem trying to clean up its act but still their free >> services are being hammered by those with evil on their minds. >> >> Anyway, if anybody else happens to have a BrailleNote, we plan to set up a >> test account. In fact, if anybody else has any form of portable device like >> this and they would like to do us a favour and test for us, please feel free >> to get back to us off list and we will more than happily give you details of >> how you can help. Particularly in the case of HumanWare, to whom we plan to >> write a letter highlighting the issue, but also in the case of other >> accessibility devices, we would very much like to know which devices will >> work and which won't. Submitting that kind of data to HumanWAre themselves >> might just make them wake up to the modern reality and instruct their >> developers to push this issue to the top of their priority list for KeySoft >> 9.4 or whatever they plan to call it. >> >> I have a hunch that HumanWAre is probably the only company whose email >> client is still restricted to POP3 and I really feel that their users should >> be making a noise about this issue. POP3 is a protocol which was fine in the >> early days of TCPIP, so I am told. But now that the world has changed and we >> are all in need of secure services in which to conduct our emails, >> especially those which contain sensitive information such as receipts and >> other personal data, everybody has the right to expect that their providers >> provide a service which is both efficient and secure. Sadly, it is still the >> case that many providers don't require any authentication when a client logs >> on to their email servers. Just imagine Amazon, Apple or Microsoft Stores >> based around websites where the client doesn't have a password or key phrase >> to protect themselves, or which doesn't employ security to transfer their >> sensitive information like credit or debit card. I think the client would >> probably kick up a fuss; and very rightly so. The same should be true of >> email. Many people don't seem to give that a thought. They just set up their >> client using the email server address and their log-in credentials. They >> probably don't even realise that their emails are being transmitted totally >> in the clear. Anybody monitoring the IP network (which I am told buy a lot >> of people is a pretty simple thing to do these days) could gain access to >> quite a lot of sensitive information that way. >> >> We try but sadly not all providers do. Which leads me back to Gordon's >> original question, all be it repeated. Does anybody else on list happen to >> own a HumanWare BrailleNote or other similar accessibility designed device >> and, if so, would they be willing to test for us?? >> >> Lynne >> >> On 28 Jul 2013, at 21:14, Dane Trethowan <[email protected]> wrote: >> >>> I don't own one of these machines so can't comment on the machine itself >>> but what I can say is that Humen B Ware ought to be absolutely ashamed of >>> themselves fo even giving you an eMail client that doesn't support iMap, >>> just about every eMail client I can think of off the top of my head >>> supports iMap of some sort and even Eudora going back 15 years ago I'm sure >>> supported some form of iMap so its not as though iMap has just burst onto >>> the scene, makes you wonder just how much else users of Braillenote >>> products may be missing with Key Soft or is it Key botch. >>> >>> >>> On 29/07/2013 12:17 AM, Gordon Smith wrote: >>>> Hi all >>>> >>>> Does anybody on list happen to own one of these machines, updated to >>>> Keysoft 9.3 which was released earlier this month? if so, I would very >>>> much welcome a discussion with you regarding some weird problems I'm >>>> having with the Apex. Actually I have already told Humanware how poor I >>>> think their E-Mail client, (known as "KeyMail" actually is). KeyMail does >>>> not, for instance, support any incarnation of IMAP which, without even >>>> trying, rules out using it with iCloud or any other service which employs >>>> only IMAP. IMAP is definitely the way to go regarding mail. POP3 should >>>> be phased out, in my humble opinion. But back to the point. KeyMail is >>>> so incredibly inflexible that, with a server which requires authentication >>>> on sending E-Mail, the inability to define the type of authentication in >>>> use, the fact that KeyMail doesn't support any other protocol than POP3 >>>> coupled with a few other issues all go to make KeyMail the worst E-Mail >>>> client I have ever tried to use, and that includes Microsoft Outlook >>>> Express. >>>> >>>> KeyMail is really in need of a rewrite, in my view. Although the commands >>>> are logical as in they fit the general topology of KeySoft, it is >>>> sometimes difficult to jump from one place to another quickly and, >>>> although you can now kind of multitask using KeyMail and KeyWeb, along >>>> with KeyWord and KeyPlan, there's still a great deal of work which I think >>>> the developers could have done to make KeySoft an operating system worthy >>>> of calling a modern environment. >>>> >>>> The hardware specification of the Apex is kind of old-fashioned as well. >>>> It has a 100MBPS Ethernet port, Wireless-A/B/G compatibility and only a >>>> 512MHZ processor. Officially, KeySoft only allows you to use a 32GB or >>>> smaller format SD card. However, I and others have used a pre-formatted >>>> 64GB or even greater capacity SD card with goos success. I have tried it >>>> with a 64GB card and experienced no ill-effects whatsoever. The Apex has >>>> 1 USB client port and 3 USB host ports. This allows you to plug in, for >>>> example, a USB memory stick, an embosser four Braille and a printer >>>> simultaneously. One of the nice things about KeySoft is its universal and >>>> on-the-fly formatting. For instance, if you have a document which you >>>> need to print using an ink printer, and also which you would like to >>>> emboss using any connected embosser, there is no need to modify your >>>> document's format, as it is all done on the fly by the BrailleNote. I >>>> haven't personally tried this yet, but I plan to do so shortly. But I >>>> have tried playing around with a few documents and looking at the format >>>> structure. The files look absolutely fine for embossing, all of the codes >>>> appear to be perfectly valid. Conversely, for printing using an ink >>>> printer, the format appears to be perfectly correct. Styles and other >>>> elements I have not yet tested. I play to do that shortly too. >>>> >>>> Anyway, all this is really beside the point. If anybody else out there is >>>> using an Apex, may we have a discussion? The above-mentioned would be my >>>> starting point. If you have had success with doing things like sending >>>> authenticated mail, I'd love to know how you managed it because I simply >>>> cannot get KeyMail to play at all on the sending side. >>>> >>>> Regarding application extensions, As I understand it, developers of >>>> Windows CE 6.0 extensions couldn't have their applications installed by >>>> the user into KeySoft. My understanding is that in order to implement >>>> extensions, developers would need to comply with the very strict topology >>>> of KeySoft. I can sort of understand that, but if only Humanware would >>>> invite third-party developers to enable missing functionality, even with >>>> the hardware restrictions we now have, KeySoft could be a far more >>>> powerful piece of software engineering than it currently is. >>>> >>>> HumanWare also charges astronomical prices for their KeySoft extensions, >>>> and also their accompanying hardware. Consider: The Concise Oxford >>>> Dictionary costs in excess of £100 GBP. The same thing on a Mac or a PC >>>> can be purchased for just over 10% of that cost. HumanWAre charges £25.00 >>>> for a power cable to attach their power supply to the electrical wall >>>> outlet. Consider, the same cables minus the rubber pull-out handle come >>>> supplied with any old cassette recorder, radio, even video and hi-fi >>>> equipment. HumanWare charges £45.00 for a spare battery for the Apex. >>>> They also charge £76.00 for what they term a "Deluxe" case. The "Deluxe" >>>> case is now a canvas cloth case instead of the old leather cases which >>>> used to come supplied with the older models. All this pricing astounds me >>>> to be honest. >>>> >>>> Anyway, I would welcome comment from any other KeySoft users either >>>> privately or on list. >>>> >>>> Kind regards >>>> >>>> <--- Gordon Smith ---> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> <[email protected]> >>>> >>>> Telephone: >>>> >>>> United Kingdom: Free Phone: >>>> 0800 8620538 >>>> >>>> Mobile: >>>> +44 7907 823971 >>>> >>>> Europe and other non-specified: >>>> +44 1642 688095 >>>> >>>> United States Of America And Canada: >>>> +1 646 9151493 >>>> Or: >>>> +1 209 436 9443 >>>> >>>> Vic. Australia: >>>> +61 38 8205930 >>>> Vic. Australia >>>> +61 39 0284505 >>>> >>>> Fax: >>>> +44 1642 365123 >>>> >>>> Follow Us On Twitter: >>>> <http://twitter.com/maciosaccess> >>>> >>>> Skype: >>>> <skype:mac-access-dot-net?call> >>>> >>>> ------------------------------ >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> ======================================= >>>> >>>> The Techno-Chat E-Mail forum is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, virus >>>> and worm-free >>>> >>>> To modify your subscription options, please visit for forum's dedicated >>>> web pages located at >>>> http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/techno-chat >>>> >>>> You can find an archive of all messages posted to the Techno-Chat group at >>>> either of the following websites: >>>> >>>> http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/pipermail/techno-chat/index.html >>>> >>>> Or: >>>> <http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected]> >>>> you may also subscribe to this list via RSS. 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