texascavers Digest 26 Jan 2012 02:04:16 -0000 Issue 1479
Topics (messages 19382 through 19387):
Re: Ministers: Any successful in-cave marriages?
19382 by: Stefan Creaser
Grotto liability when loaning gear
19383 by: Mallory Mayeux
19384 by: Geary Schindel
lender gear
19385 by: Gill Edigar
Blind fish article
19386 by: caverarch
TCMA Special Election
19387 by: Saj Zappitello
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--- Begin Message ---
I guess it all goes wrong when you have to remove the lead underpants to wash
them?
Stefan
From: caverarch [mailto:[email protected]]
Sent: Monday, January 23, 2012 4:34 PM
To: [email protected]; [email protected]
Cc: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [Texascavers] Re: Ministers: Any successful in-cave marriages?
Don and all,
It is my hypothesis simply that (1) approximately 95% of cavers are inherently
naughty to a greater or lesser (but mostly greater) degree, and therefore
predisposed to some degree of core drama reaction; (2) a critical mass of
naughtiness necessary to begin a spontaneous, self-sustaining total drama
meltdown is not generally achieved in caver-to-caver marriages, at least during
the first half-life (six months) of the marriage; (3) the cumulative time
factor is altered, however, if the bonding ceremony takes place underground.
Such an underground transaction tends to enrich the naughty isotope to an
inherently unstable level in one or both parties, leading to an
alcohol-lubricated cascading series of unions that result in a
daisy-chain-reaction meltdown.
All these effects can be ameliorated, however, by lead underpants for both
parties.
Roger
-----Original Message-----
From: Don Cooper <[email protected]>
To: Frank Binney <[email protected]>
Cc: Cavers, Texas <[email protected]>
Sent: Sun, Jan 22, 2012 12:10 am
Subject: Re: [Texascavers] Re: Ministers: Any successful in-cave marriages?
I believe, that due to planar topological relations to all parties
involved, a non-resolving dimensional instability begins to resonate
between two sexual partners who undergo a social ceremony while inside
a hole. That resonance creates frionic irritation within the medula
oblongata - totally wrecking the peace, love and happiness which
otherwise would have possibly bonded such a couple.
-DC
On Wed, Jan 18, 2012 at 11:49 AM, Frank Binney
<[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> wrote:
> Have any marriages lasted that had their wedding celebrations in a cave?
> I recall a number of underground weddings over the years officiated by
> Reverend Ediger or other ordained cavers but as far as I recall all ended in
> divorce.
> --Frank
>
>
> On 1/18/12 9:02 AM, "Gill Edigar" <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> wrote:
>
>> In April of 1969, just before or just after a trip to Golondrinas, I
>> sent in a 6-cent postcard with my and Jette Feduska's names and
>> addresses on it--no money, no nuthin else--and received our
>> ordinations in the Universal Life Church a few days later. For 3-cents
>> I got ordained. Carta Valley SUCKS was in full swing at the time and I
>> performed baptisms at several caver functions ranging from State
>> College, Pennsylvania to California (and an NSS BOG party in Buda)
>> with water from Oztotl's Cave in Mexico provided by the Bittingers. In
>> the early '80s I joined the rabble at the Church of the Sub-Genius as
>> the Rev Theophilus Punnoval and still have and wear my Bob Dobbs shirt
>> (printed in my silk screen shop at Mockingburd 300). I've probably
>> done something somewhat fewer than 30 weddings in all--a few in caves,
>> on mountain tops and rivers, and on rope high up a cliff.
>>
>> --Ediger
>>
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--- Begin Message ---
Good morning Cavers!
The Houston grotto is in the process of revamping a very old constitution
and updating grotto policies, and 'loaner gear' is an issue we're currently
discussing.
Rather than embark on a ton of research and re-invent the wheel, I wanted
to reach out to the Texas caving community for input. What are the
liability issues around loaning grotto-owned cave gear to grotto members?
For example, if I as a grotto officer loaned a piece of grotto-owned
vertical equipment to member of my grotto, and that equipment failed and
the member injured themselves in some way, could our grotto be held
responsible? Would signed waivers absolve our grotto of all responsibility?
Does the NSS have some sort of insurance that covers grottos in worst-case
scenarios?
How do you other Texas grottos mitigate risk when/if you loan out gear? DO
you ever loan out seat harnesses, etc? Has your grotto ever been put in a
situation where you were potentially liable for any injury? If so, is there
any advice you would give another grotto when laying out equipment
guidelines?
Thanks for the input in advance!
Mallory Mayeux
Greater Houston Grotto Secretary
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
The NSS does not carry insurance for grottos.
If you are concerned about personal liability, you should get a personal
liability coverage through your home owners insurance. It isn't super
expensive for $1 million (but not free).
Loaner vertical gear presents a number of issues related to care, misuse, and
abuse, be it personal or grotto owned. If you don't have your own gear, you're
probably a beginner and prone to all kinds of problems when starting out
vertical caving. I have a lot of gear that I let others use but ONLY if I'm
along on the trip. That helps to eliminate some of the liability, misuse and
abuse issues - but creates others.
Geary
From: Mallory Mayeux [mailto:[email protected]]
Sent: Tuesday, January 24, 2012 9:49 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: [Texascavers] Grotto liability when loaning gear
Good morning Cavers!
The Houston grotto is in the process of revamping a very old constitution and
updating grotto policies, and 'loaner gear' is an issue we're currently
discussing.
Rather than embark on a ton of research and re-invent the wheel, I wanted to
reach out to the Texas caving community for input. What are the liability
issues around loaning grotto-owned cave gear to grotto members?
For example, if I as a grotto officer loaned a piece of grotto-owned vertical
equipment to member of my grotto, and that equipment failed and the member
injured themselves in some way, could our grotto be held responsible? Would
signed waivers absolve our grotto of all responsibility? Does the NSS have some
sort of insurance that covers grottos in worst-case scenarios?
How do you other Texas grottos mitigate risk when/if you loan out gear? DO you
ever loan out seat harnesses, etc? Has your grotto ever been put in a situation
where you were potentially liable for any injury? If so, is there any advice
you would give another grotto when laying out equipment guidelines?
Thanks for the input in advance!
Mallory Mayeux
Greater Houston Grotto Secretary
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
First, there is no way anyone can completely absolve themselves of
liability. A court case can go either way. Second, I don't think the
GHG is an entity that can be sued; it's just a loose collection of
like-minded folks--unincorporated, etc. There might be some sorta
class-action suit brought against the officers or trainers or such.
The Grotto probably has no assets anybody would want, anyway. Now,
personally (and third), if you want the maximum protection for
yourself should someone become injured or dead on account of some
faulty equipment you lent them you should get them to sign an
affidavit with the usual wording before handing them the gear, "I
understand that the owner of this equipment, having no control over
the ultimate use of this equipment by others, makes no claims as to
the serviceability or suitability of said equipment for any purpose
whatsoever. I _________________ take full responsibility for
responsibility for my own actions and any use and application I may
make of said equipment while in my care." You need to get a lawyer to
write it but those are the basic ideas that are needed. Still, that
doesn't mean you can't be sued, personally, by anyone for any
reason--even though the law is clearly on your side. But it does show
intent by the user to take responsibility and absolve you of
liability. How far that intent is accepted by the court is anybody's
guess.
--Ediger
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Cool evolutionary biology article on research by the Cave Biology Group at New
York University on work conducted in the Sierra de
El Abra, Mexico.
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2012/01/120122201209.htm
Roger Moore
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
The Texas Cave Management Association is calling a special election to
fill a Board of Directors position. At this time, we are requesting
nominations for director candidates because with the new ByLaws, we
are one Director short and need to rectify the situation. The director
will serve the remainder of the three year term: from March of this
year until December 31, 2014.
The election will take place by electronic ballot, much like the
general election last fall. The election will open on February 27 and
will run through March 12 close of business. Members must be in good
standing and up to date on payment of dues in order to participate in
the election. Members in good standing will be contacted via email by
the online ballot system. Paper ballots will also be available by
contacting the database committee. To vote in this eballot election,
be sure we have your current email address and that you are current in
your dues.
Coming soon, you can go to http://www.tcmacaves.org/whatsnew/ for
additional information on duties and responsibilities. If you know of
someone who might be a good candidate but might be reluctant to step
forward, contact the committee chair at [email protected],
and we will contact the proposed candidate on behalf of TCMA.
Sincerely,
TCMA Nominations Committee
--- End Message ---
