texascavers Digest 15 Feb 2012 00:36:14 -0000 Issue 1498
Topics (messages 19559 through 19572):
Arsenic Concentrations High in Wind Cave Water Bodies :
19559 by: JerryAtkin.aol.com
Re: Honey Creek sand observation
19560 by: Andy Gluesenkamp
19561 by: Benjamin Schwartz
19563 by: Joe & Evelynn
19564 by: George Veni
19565 by: George Veni
19566 by: Joe & Evelynn
19571 by: dirtdoc.comcast.net
19572 by: George Veni
Paging Steve Webb!
19562 by: Mallory Mayeux
Wire Wiggle Club
19567 by: Preston Forsythe
19568 by: Andy Edwards
19569 by: Mark Minton
new sinkhole in SW Austin being studied
19570 by: Logan McNatt
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--- Begin Message ---
Arsenic Concentrations High in Wind Cave Water Bodies
Released: 2/13/2012 12:00:00 PM Contact Information:
U.S. Department of the Interior, U.S. Geological Survey
Office of Communications and Publishing
12201 Sunrise Valley Dr, MS 119
Reston, VA 20192 _Andrew Long_ (mailto:[email protected])
(http://www.usgs.gov/newsroom/[email protected]+&n=Andrew+Long)
Phone: 605-394-3237
_Marisa Lubeck_ (mailto:[email protected])
(http://www.usgs.gov/newsroom/[email protected]&n=Marisa+Lubeck)
Phone: 303-202-4765
(http://www.addthis.com/bookmark.php)
Note to editors: Photographs from this study are available _online_
(http://sd.water.usgs.gov/projects/Wind%20Cave/WindCave.html) .
High concentrations of naturally occurring arsenic are present in
interconnected water bodies within Wind Cave National Park, S.D., according to
a
new U.S. Geological Survey _report_ (http://pubs.usgs.gov/sir/2011/5235/) .
The USGS study, in cooperation with the National Park Service, revealed
that arsenic concentrations in Wind Cave groundwater exceeds 10 micrograms per
liter, the Maximum Contaminant Level for drinking-water supplies set by
the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency. The high arsenic concentrations are
likely naturally occurring and originated from shale layers in overlying
rocks.
"The fact that the source of the contamination is from the rock layers
through which the ground waters naturally flow means that it is not possible to
remediate the arsenic in the water," explained USGS Director Marcia
McNutt. "This study points out the fact that part of what makes the park a
geologic wonder also creates challenges for the water supply."
The study also found that the water may be flowing among various connected
cave water bodies within the park. Groundwater in Wind Cave drips from cave
ceilings and exists in underground streams, pools, and lakes. As part of
the study, a harmless dye was injected into one of the Wind Cave lakes. The
dye was subsequently detected in two other cave water bodies within the
park, traveling fast at a minimum velocity of nine meters per day.
"The rate of flow is very fast for groundwater," said Dr. Andrew Long, USGS
hydrologist and lead author of the report. "This indicates that
groundwater in Wind Cave is connected to a unique aquifer consisting of a
network of
underground pipes."
According to a further groundwater chemistry analysis, the water in Wind
Cave is a mixture of local precipitation that has infiltrated the ground and
groundwater inflow from multiple aquifers.
For more information, visit the USGS South Dakota Water Science Center
_website_ (http://sd.water.usgs.gov/) .
_http://www.usgs.gov/newsroom/article.asp?ID=3100_
(http://www.usgs.gov/newsroom/article.asp?ID=3100)
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Ezell's Cave is another place where thick sheets of calcite ice seem to form
very quickly. A beautiful thing to dive under, like giant snowflakes mixed
with saucer sized chunks of "ice"raining down from above.
Andrew G. Gluesenkamp, Ph.D.
700 Billie Brooks Drive
Driftwood, Texas 78619
(512) 799-1095
[email protected]
--- On Mon, 2/13/12, Mark Minton <[email protected]> wrote:
From: Mark Minton <[email protected]>
Subject: RE: [Texascavers] Honey Creek sand observation
To: [email protected]
List-Post: [email protected]
Date: Monday, February 13, 2012, 7:45 PM
In a similar vein, back in the '80s in Spring Creek Cave
(TX) I remember breaking through calcite ice that had formed a solid
layer on the surface of the water in active stream passage. We
crunched through it sinking large pieces as we walked. A few months
later when we returned the solid layer of calcite had already
reformed on the water. I do not remember the times of year that
those trips took place, but obviously calcite rafts/ice can form very
rapidly under optimal conditions.
Mark
At 04:36 PM 2/13/2012, George Veni wrote:
>I've been thinking a lot about Snowy, and its situation is different from
>Honey Creek. Calcite precipitation on the floor of Honey Creek occurs mostly
>by sunken rafts, whereas calcite in Snowy is precipitated as a crystalline
>layer on the submerged walls and floors. The basic geochemical equations and
>processes are the same, but there are some important differences that affect
>the methods of deposition. I've not seen any water chemistry data for Snowy
>and no such data exists for how the water evolves as it flows down the
>passage. Also missing, at least to my eyes, is information on carbon dioxide
>in the air and water at Snowy. Lastly, the source area for Honey Creek's
>water is fairly well understood, which is not the case for Snowy.
>
>I'm not discouraging research, only pointing out how much more needs to be
>done. So much karst. So little time...
>
>George
>
>***************************
>
>George Veni, Ph.D.
>Executive Director
>National Cave and Karst Research Institute
>400-1 Cascades Avenue
>Carlsbad, New Mexico 88220-6215 USA
>Office: 575-887-5517
>Mobile: 210-863-5919
>Fax: 575-887-5523
>[email protected]
>www.nckri.org
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Pete Lindsley [mailto:[email protected]]
>Sent: Monday, February 13, 2012 13:26
>To: [email protected]
>Cc: 'texas cavers'
>Subject: Re: [Texascavers] Honey Creek sand observation
>
>George, it would also be interesting to relate this to the development of
>the rather recent calcite formation in Snowy RIver. SR only forms calcite in
>SR during a "flood event" in the really dry NM area, and that apparently
>happens only 2-4 times in a 10 year period due mostly to heavy rains and
>heavy snow melts.
>
>So we have two "Laboratory Caves" here, one in dry NM, and the other in a
>much wetter TX area.
>
> - Pete
>
>On Feb 13, 2012, at 1:17 PM, George Veni wrote:
>
>Measurements I made of soil and cave air carbon dioxide during my
>dissertation research in the Honey Creek area show a strong positive
>correlation between spring-summer plant growth and increases in cave air
>carbon dioxide. Studies in other areas have shown the same thing.
>
>You are correct that the water temperature has an effect, as do seasonal
>changes in water chemistry, both of which I didn't mention for the sake of
>brevity. I would expect that a decrease in temperature would result in
>dissolution of the rafts rather than the precipitation we see. However,
>because the water temperature has usually come close to equilibrating with
>the temperature of the surrounding mass of rock and water by the time we see
>it in the areas where rafts are deposited, I would also expect any
>temperature effects to be minor given the small decrease in temperature. I
>have measured significant changes in carbon dioxide and know that is
>certainly a major factor.
>
>It would be interesting to run a "standard" example of the cave's water
>chemistry values through a geochemical model and tweak the temperature and
>carbon dioxide levels over a series of iterations to predict how much of a
>change in temperature or carbon dioxide would be needed to affect raft
>deposition one way or the other.
>
>George
>
>***************************
>
>George Veni, Ph.D.
>Executive Director
>National Cave and Karst Research Institute
>400-1 Cascades Avenue
>Carlsbad, New Mexico 88220-6215 USA
>Office: 575-887-5517
>Mobile: 210-863-5919
>Fax: 575-887-5523
>[email protected]
>www.nckri.org
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Diana Tomchick [mailto:[email protected]]
>Sent: Monday, February 13, 2012 12:40
>To: <[email protected]>
>Cc: texas cavers
>Subject: Re: [Texascavers] Honey Creek sand observation
>
> > The degree to which the sand accumulates or is noticed at any given
> > time depends mostly on:
> > . How much time has passed since the last flood, which determines
>how many rafts will accumulate floating on the water;
> > . How severe the flood was, and did it just sink the floating
>rafts where they can be seen, or wash them away or bury them under silt and
>clay where they will not be seen;
> > . The chemistry of the cave's water and atmosphere to create
>favorable conditions for raft development. Kurt is right that they usually
>form more quickly in the winter because the cave atmosphere has less carbon
>dioxide at that time, allowing more carbon dioxide to degas from the water,
>driving the water to supersaturation with respect to calcite, and promoting
>calcite raft development.
>
>Does the cave atmosphere have less carbon dioxide due to lesser amounts of
>degradation of biomass in the ground over the cave in the winter (due to the
>lower surface air temperatures), or is it due to a reduction in temperature
>of the creek water in the cave? Because the solubility of carbon dioxide
>increases as the temperature of water decreases.
>
>Diana
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--- Begin Message ---
While temperature, moisture content, and seasonality probably do have
some effects on raft deposition in the stream passage, and certainly
effect CO2 generation in the soil horizon, my observations in CWAN are
that these effects on the surface are actually driving airflow changes
in the cave, which is the main engine driving the raft precipitation.
During the warm months in CWAN, no rafts form, and previously formed
and/or sunken rafts (after going over a rimstone dam, or under a drip
site, for example) will re-dissolve and disappear. This is because
airflow slows down during the hot months and is coming in from many of
the (relatively) higher, small, and peripheral fissure and fracture
'entrances' to the system, as well as through the shallow soils, all of
which will have a lot higher than atmospheric CO2. This causes generally
higher concentrations of CO2 in the cave atmosphere, and relatively
equilibrium conditions. I'm not sure what the actual concentrations are
in CWAN, but the air is definitely a lot less 'fresh' in the summer.
Evelynn Mitchell has some CO2 data for the tourist part of the cave, so
perhaps she can give us some relative idea of what summer vs. winter is.
During the winter, this chimney-effect airflow reverses and strong
airflow is pulling cool, low-CO2 atmospheric air in from the main
entrance and transporting it across the (now super-saturated with
respect to the cave air) water in the stream. As the air moves upstream,
CO2 de-gasses and calcite rafts will precipitate in just a few hours.
We've sunk them going upstream and found them reformed on the way back
downstream. At the bottom of rimstone dams and at our gaging weir, we
sometimes see large spectacular drifts of snow white sunken rafts - but
these all go away in the summer or after a large storm event. I can send
a picture of our weir with beautiful raft drifts below it, if anyone
would like to see it.
At any time of year, the far upstream reaches of the cave, where there
is little airflow, rarely have any rafts at all. The rafts (and rimstone
dams) pretty much stop when you pass the points where the main airflow
leaves. And those shall remain unattractive, gnarly, low-air secrets
until we map the passages. ;-)
So, while I can't say this is what is happening in Honey Creek, I am
very confident this is what is driving calcite raft precipitation and
dissolution in CWAN.
Best,
Benjamin Schwartz
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Almost right. The CO2 levels and airflow velocities are essentially
barometrically driven (not chimney effect which requires substantial elevation
differences). In the summer barometric pressure changes are usually small so
little air exchange occurs (and CO2 levels can build). In the winter, frequent
high pressure systems (cold fronts) cause rapid increases in pressure driving
lots of outside air in, dropping CO2 levels by large amounts. The bigger the
cave volume the better for this to happen. A low pressure system can do the
opposite, drawing out CO2 laden air from the depths of the system.
The idea of supersaturated water forming the raft sounds very plausible and
fits with the observations.
Note that CO2 levels can vary by a factor of 10 or more in only a few hours
when pressures are changing, so single observations can be deceiving as to what
is going on.
As for the origin of the CO2, I think that is still an open question. I'm not
so sure about soils since there isn't much in central Texas. In small caves it
could be organics. But in larger caves, I tend to favor out gassing from the
limestone as it is dissolved by water - especially in caves that are connected
to an underlying aquifer such as the Edwards where there is lots of water in
continual contact with rock.
Joe
Sent from my iPhone
Joe
Sent from my iPhone
On Feb 14, 2012, at 8:51 AM, Benjamin Schwartz <[email protected]> wrote:
> While temperature, moisture content, and seasonality probably do have some
> effects on raft deposition in the stream passage, and certainly effect CO2
> generation in the soil horizon, my observations in CWAN are that these
> effects on the surface are actually driving airflow changes in the cave,
> which is the main engine driving the raft precipitation.
>
> During the warm months in CWAN, no rafts form, and previously formed and/or
> sunken rafts (after going over a rimstone dam, or under a drip site, for
> example) will re-dissolve and disappear. This is because airflow slows down
> during the hot months and is coming in from many of the (relatively) higher,
> small, and peripheral fissure and fracture 'entrances' to the system, as well
> as through the shallow soils, all of which will have a lot higher than
> atmospheric CO2. This causes generally higher concentrations of CO2 in the
> cave atmosphere, and relatively equilibrium conditions. I'm not sure what the
> actual concentrations are in CWAN, but the air is definitely a lot less
> 'fresh' in the summer. Evelynn Mitchell has some CO2 data for the tourist
> part of the cave, so perhaps she can give us some relative idea of what
> summer vs. winter is.
>
> During the winter, this chimney-effect airflow reverses and strong airflow is
> pulling cool, low-CO2 atmospheric air in from the main entrance and
> transporting it across the (now super-saturated with respect to the cave air)
> water in the stream. As the air moves upstream, CO2 de-gasses and calcite
> rafts will precipitate in just a few hours. We've sunk them going upstream
> and found them reformed on the way back downstream. At the bottom of rimstone
> dams and at our gaging weir, we sometimes see large spectacular drifts of
> snow white sunken rafts - but these all go away in the summer or after a
> large storm event. I can send a picture of our weir with beautiful raft
> drifts below it, if anyone would like to see it.
>
> At any time of year, the far upstream reaches of the cave, where there is
> little airflow, rarely have any rafts at all. The rafts (and rimstone dams)
> pretty much stop when you pass the points where the main airflow leaves. And
> those shall remain unattractive, gnarly, low-air secrets until we map the
> passages. ;-)
>
> So, while I can't say this is what is happening in Honey Creek, I am very
> confident this is what is driving calcite raft precipitation and dissolution
> in CWAN.
>
> Best,
>
> Benjamin Schwartz
>
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> Visit our website: http://texascavers.com
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--- Begin Message ---
Benjamin,
Thanks for elaboration at CWAN. I agree with you. The same thing is
happening at Honey Creek. As you understand, but for those readers on the
list who are less familiar with carbonate geochemistry, it isn't really the
airflow per se that is causing the calcite precipitation. The airflow is
instead the mechanism of keeping the partial pressure of carbon dioxide in
the air below that of the water, allowing the water to degas some of its
carbon dioxide and precipitate the calcite rafts. Without airflow to replace
the carbon dioxide-rich air with fresher air, the carbon dioxide partial
pressures in air and water would effectively equalize so no degassing and
thus no calcite precipitation would take place.
During my research at CWAN I also saw great rafts form and disappear,
especially around my stage recorder stilling well at the dam. I measured
atmospheric carbon dioxide monthly in the cave and those who have a copy of
my dissertation (apparently still available from the TSS at:
http://www.utexas.edu/tmm/sponsored_sites/tss/publications/tsspubmono.htm)
can see a plot of the seasonal changes. Of course I expect Evelynn's data to
be far more detailed than mine and I'd love to see her results someday.
George
***************************
George Veni, Ph.D.
Executive Director
National Cave and Karst Research Institute
400-1 Cascades Avenue
Carlsbad, New Mexico 88220-6215 USA
Office: 575-887-5517
Mobile: 210-863-5919
Fax: 575-887-5523
[email protected]
www.nckri.org
-----Original Message-----
From: Benjamin Schwartz [mailto:[email protected]]
Sent: Tuesday, February 14, 2012 07:51
To: [email protected]
Subject: [Texascavers] Re: Honey Creek sand observation
While temperature, moisture content, and seasonality probably do have some
effects on raft deposition in the stream passage, and certainly effect CO2
generation in the soil horizon, my observations in CWAN are that these
effects on the surface are actually driving airflow changes in the cave,
which is the main engine driving the raft precipitation.
During the warm months in CWAN, no rafts form, and previously formed and/or
sunken rafts (after going over a rimstone dam, or under a drip site, for
example) will re-dissolve and disappear. This is because airflow slows down
during the hot months and is coming in from many of the (relatively) higher,
small, and peripheral fissure and fracture 'entrances' to the system, as
well as through the shallow soils, all of which will have a lot higher than
atmospheric CO2. This causes generally higher concentrations of CO2 in the
cave atmosphere, and relatively equilibrium conditions. I'm not sure what
the actual concentrations are in CWAN, but the air is definitely a lot less
'fresh' in the summer.
Evelynn Mitchell has some CO2 data for the tourist part of the cave, so
perhaps she can give us some relative idea of what summer vs. winter is.
During the winter, this chimney-effect airflow reverses and strong airflow
is pulling cool, low-CO2 atmospheric air in from the main entrance and
transporting it across the (now super-saturated with respect to the cave
air) water in the stream. As the air moves upstream,
CO2 de-gasses and calcite rafts will precipitate in just a few hours.
We've sunk them going upstream and found them reformed on the way back
downstream. At the bottom of rimstone dams and at our gaging weir, we
sometimes see large spectacular drifts of snow white sunken rafts - but
these all go away in the summer or after a large storm event. I can send a
picture of our weir with beautiful raft drifts below it, if anyone would
like to see it.
At any time of year, the far upstream reaches of the cave, where there is
little airflow, rarely have any rafts at all. The rafts (and rimstone
dams) pretty much stop when you pass the points where the main airflow
leaves. And those shall remain unattractive, gnarly, low-air secrets until
we map the passages. ;-)
So, while I can't say this is what is happening in Honey Creek, I am very
confident this is what is driving calcite raft precipitation and dissolution
in CWAN.
Best,
Benjamin Schwartz
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--- Begin Message ---
"As for the origin of the CO2, I think that is still an open question. I'm
not so sure about soils since there isn't much in central Texas. In small
caves it could be organics. But in larger caves, I tend to favor out gassing
from the limestone as it is dissolved by water - especially in caves that
are connected to an underlying aquifer such as the Edwards where there is
lots of water in continual contact with rock."
The soils are where the CO2 is stored; the actual source is plant
respiration. It is not the only source of CO2 in cave air. The measured
changes in soil that occur when plants become especially active, which have
been correlated to changes in caves, show plant respiration is an important
factor. How important remains to be better quantified because CO2 in Texas
cave air increases not just with plant respiration but as we get into the
season where airflow due to barometric changes decreases. Determining how
much CO2 is outgassed from the limestone or deeper sources is something I've
long wanted to do. I'm glad you're working on it Joe.
George
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I have a fresh Austin chalk cave rock ready to go in a vacuum chamber connected
to a mass spec to measure the outgassing, which may give us some data soon.
Joe
Sent from my iPhone
On Feb 14, 2012, at 10:25 AM, "George Veni" <[email protected]> wrote:
> "As for the origin of the CO2, I think that is still an open question. I'm
> not so sure about soils since there isn't much in central Texas. In small
> caves it could be organics. But in larger caves, I tend to favor out gassing
> from the limestone as it is dissolved by water - especially in caves that
> are connected to an underlying aquifer such as the Edwards where there is
> lots of water in continual contact with rock."
>
> The soils are where the CO2 is stored; the actual source is plant
> respiration. It is not the only source of CO2 in cave air. The measured
> changes in soil that occur when plants become especially active, which have
> been correlated to changes in caves, show plant respiration is an important
> factor. How important remains to be better quantified because CO2 in Texas
> cave air increases not just with plant respiration but as we get into the
> season where airflow due to barometric changes decreases. Determining how
> much CO2 is outgassed from the limestone or deeper sources is something I've
> long wanted to do. I'm glad you're working on it Joe.
>
> George
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> Visit our website: http://texascavers.com
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: [email protected]
> For additional commands, e-mail: [email protected]
>
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--- Begin Message ---
I have been following the calcite "sand" posts with interest. George, I
suspect the soils may be more important than you acknowledge. I think it
depends more on residence time and partial pressure (and, of course, plant
activity) than "thickness" of the soils as such.
In a related item, I have the PDF of the USGS Wind Cave water report. I can
send it if anyone wishes. Now we just need to find the Old Lace to go with all
the arsenic.
DirtDoc
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Dwight,
Actually it was someone else who was downplaying the role of soil and plants on
CO2. I’m a fan!
George
***************************
George Veni, Ph.D.
Executive Director
National Cave and Karst Research Institute
400-1 Cascades Avenue
Carlsbad, New Mexico 88220-6215 USA
Office: 575-887-5517
Mobile: 210-863-5919
Fax: 575-887-5523
[email protected]
www.nckri.org
From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]]
Sent: Tuesday, February 14, 2012 17:07
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [Texascavers] Re: Honey Creek sand observation
I have been following the calcite "sand" posts with interest. George, I
suspect the soils may be more important than you acknowledge. I think it
depends more on residence time and partial pressure (and, of course, plant
activity) than "thickness" of the soils as such.
In a related item, I have the PDF of the USGS Wind Cave water report. I can
send it if anyone wishes. Now we just need to find the Old Lace to go with all
the arsenic.
DirtDoc
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Can someone send me Steve Webb from Dallas's email address?
Mallory
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
To the best of my knowledge, Bill Russell pioneered that famous route at the
back of Airman's Cave. I know my trip there was with Bill. That section of the
cave has some amazing long thin selinite needles. But, the 120 degree tight
bend in the Wire Wiggle is a killer as the knees will not easily bend to
accommodate the maneuver. Rumor is that passage was enlarged, somehow, by
blasting?
As for other interesting cave passage names, I particularly like the secondary
entrance name to Cool Springs Cave, KY. That crawlway is known as Roach's
Runway. Reminds me of the old days at 1307 1/2 Kirkwood and the huge numbers of
roaches before I led the boric acid attack in the kitchen. Roach's Runway is
another tight passage, similar to the entrance crawl in Airman's. However, The
Wire Wiggle in the back of Airman's is way tighter than it's entrance crawl.
The current most incredible tight passage that I know of is the new connection
at Mammoth Cave between Donkey Cave and Pohl Avenue under Flint Ridge. This
tight virgin passage was pushed hard by Joyce Hoffmaster on May 28, 2011.
Donkey Cave became the Eleventh Connection to Mammoth Cave. If you have access,
see Roger Brucker's write-up of this story in the Feb.. 2012 CRF Newsletter. I
do not know if the crawl was named or not. It may be the Donkey Kong push (?)
as the lead was a drain out of the Donkey Kong Pit.
And, while I am running on: how about that Drama in Lukina Jama in Crotia by
Bruce White in the new Feb., 2012, NSS News. One of the best caving stories I
have read.
Cavingly,
Preston in Muhlenberg Co., KY
==========================================
----- Original Message -----
From: [email protected]
To: Preston Forsythe ; [email protected] ; [email protected]
Sent: Monday, February 13, 2012 7:36 PM
Subject: Re: [Texascavers] Schetromph cave
The Wire Wiggle in Airman's. Now there's a noble destination. All Texas
cavers should aspire to passing through its confines at least once. We should
have a club for those who have been through it.
Bill
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I do wonder if it was enlarged...it never seemed much worse to me than the
keyhole/birth canal. Does anyone have a section/vertical profile of it?
I'm not sure exactly what you mean by 120 degree bend...
-Andy
On Tue, Feb 14, 2012 at 10:59 AM, Preston Forsythe <[email protected]>wrote:
> **
> To the best of my knowledge, Bill Russell pioneered that famous route at
> the back of Airman's Cave. I know my trip there was with Bill. That section
> of the cave has some amazing long thin selinite needles. But, the 120
> degree tight bend in the Wire Wiggle is a killer as the knees will not
> easily bend to accommodate the maneuver. Rumor is that passage was
> enlarged, somehow, by blasting?
>
> As for other interesting cave passage names, I particularly like the
> secondary entrance name to Cool Springs Cave, KY. That crawlway is known as
> Roach's Runway. Reminds me of the old days at 1307 1/2 Kirkwood and the
> huge numbers of roaches before I led the boric acid attack in the kitchen.
> Roach's Runway is another tight passage, similar to the entrance crawl in
> Airman's. However, The Wire Wiggle in the back of Airman's is way tighter
> than it's entrance crawl.
>
> The current most incredible tight passage that I know of is the new
> connection at Mammoth Cave between Donkey Cave and Pohl Avenue under Flint
> Ridge. This tight virgin passage was pushed hard by Joyce Hoffmaster on May
> 28, 2011. Donkey Cave became the Eleventh Connection to Mammoth Cave. If
> you have access, see Roger Brucker's write-up of this story in the Feb..
> 2012 CRF Newsletter. I do not know if the crawl was named or not. It may be
> the Donkey Kong push (?) as the lead was a drain out of the Donkey Kong
> Pit.
>
> And, while I am running on: how about that *Drama in Lukina Jama* in
> Crotia by Bruce White in the new Feb., 2012, NSS News. One of the best
> caving stories I have read.
>
>
> Cavingly,
>
> Preston in Muhlenberg Co., KY
> ==========================================
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> *From:* [email protected]
> *To:* Preston Forsythe <[email protected]> ; [email protected] ;
> [email protected]
> *Sent:* Monday, February 13, 2012 7:36 PM
> *Subject:* Re: [Texascavers] Schetromph cave
>
> The Wire Wiggle in Airman's. Now there's a noble destination. All Texas
> cavers should aspire to passing through its confines at least once. We
> should have a club for those who have been through it.
>
> Bill
>
>
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I enlarged the Wire Wiggle slightly when I went through it
back in the 80's(?). I couldn't get my long legs around the corner,
so I used my Swiss Army knife to carve away a bit of rock so that my
knees could make the turn. It was quite soft, likely due to some
type of surface corrosion. I think the Wire Wiggle was originally
impassable when first discovered, thus the name. The corner is more
than a right angle; 120 degrees is more than 90 degrees.
An interesting thing about the gypsum needles at the back of
Airmans is that they can come and go, just like the calcite ice
people have been discussing. On one trip when I was there they were
plentiful and up to a foot long. On another trip a few months later
there were few if any to be seen. Later still they had
reappeared. Apparently they redissolve into the dirt when the
humidity is high enough.
For other interesting names, see the Cave Chronicles feature
in the December 2011 NSS News. I submitted one of my favorites for
that article, but it wasn't included. That was a pit in the mine at
Minas Viejas (across from Bustamante in Mexico) that we had been
exploring and mapping. Brian Burton (RIP) had his dog with him. All
of a sudden the dog raced down the passage and jumped into a
hundred-foot-deep pit! Of course it was killed instantly. We
couldn't figure out why it did that - maybe in the dim light it
thought it was a pool of water. In any event, we named it Dog Gone Pit.
And speaking of roaches, don't forget the Cockroach Siphon
at the end of the sewer tunnel that ran from the Oakwood Cemetery
where the AMCS (Austin Monument Climbing Society) used to meet, down
to Rosewood.
Mark
At 01:20 PM 2/14/2012, Andy Edwards wrote:
I do wonder if it was enlarged...it never seemed much worse to me
than the keyhole/birth canal. Does anyone have a section/vertical
profile of it? I'm not sure exactly what you mean by 120 degree bend...
-Andy
On Tue, Feb 14, 2012 at 10:59 AM, Preston Forsythe
<[email protected]> wrote:
To the best of my knowledge, Bill Russell pioneered that famous
route at the back of Airman's Cave. I know my trip there was with
Bill. That section of the cave has some amazing long thin selinite
needles. But, the 120 degree tight bend in the Wire Wiggle is a
killer as the knees will not easily bend to accommodate the
maneuver. Rumor is that passage was enlarged, somehow, by blasting?
As for other interesting cave passage names, I particularly like the
secondary entrance name to Cool Springs Cave, KY. That crawlway is
known as Roach's Runway. Reminds me of the old days at 1307 1/2
Kirkwood and the huge numbers of roaches before I led the boric acid
attack in the kitchen. Roach's Runway is another tight passage,
similar to the entrance crawl in Airman's. However, The Wire Wiggle
in the back of Airman's is way tighter than it's entrance crawl.
The current most incredible tight passage that I know of is the new
connection at Mammoth Cave between Donkey Cave and Pohl Avenue under
Flint Ridge. This tight virgin passage was pushed hard by Joyce
Hoffmaster on May 28, 2011. Donkey Cave became the Eleventh
Connection to Mammoth Cave. If you have access, see Roger Brucker's
write-up of this story in the Feb.. 2012 CRF Newsletter. I do not
know if the crawl was named or not. It may be the Donkey Kong push
(?) as the lead was a drain out of the Donkey Kong Pit.
And, while I am running on: how about that Drama in Lukina Jama in
Crotia by Bruce White in the new Feb., 2012, NSS News. One of the
best caving stories I have read.
Cavingly,
Preston in Muhlenberg Co., KY
==========================================
----- Original Message -----
From: [email protected]
To: Preston Forsythe ; [email protected] ; [email protected]
Sent: Monday, February 13, 2012 7:36 PM
Subject: Re: [Texascavers] Schetromph cave
The Wire Wiggle in Airman's. Now there's a noble destination. All
Texas cavers should aspire to passing through its confines at least
once. We should have a club for those who have been through it.
Bill
Please reply to [email protected]
Permanent email address is [email protected]
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Aimee Beveridge sent this to the UT Grotto Facebook page, so I'm passing it on
to the texascavers list.
Logan
http://www.statesman.com/blogs/content/shared-gen/blogs/austin/green/entries/2012/02/14/southwest_austin_cave_collapse.html
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