I certainly agree with you, linda, especially the part of your e-mail that
discusses "massive talking" about how bad government agencies are. Working for
a fed land management agency myself, I can tell you that our wildlife
biologists and the other specialists whom wns affects feel just as helpless and
unable to act as the rest of the general public.
I put out this question to the critics and naysayers, exactly what is it you
want the government to do? If you say "I don't want them to do anything. Just
stay out of it." Well, they're the ones with the $$$ who are trying to fund
research on wns. If the gov is not doing what you think they ought to, if you
don't think they're heading in the right direction or going fast enough, I'm
sure they'd be happy to know if you have a better, more productive idea.
Talking is not doing and at least someone is trying to do something.
And Diana, I agree with your assessment of FWS conversations with local
landowners. Somebody down there needs a course in intercommunications between
government personnel and landowners. There are ways to discuss things like this
without alienating everybody.
>From the gov and here to help you,
Louise
> Date: Wed, 4 Aug 2010 09:46:11 -0700
> From: [email protected]
> To: [email protected]; [email protected]
> Subject: Re: [Texascavers] TPWD, bats, and cavers
>
> The problem for me is I have very little influence over whether the bats
> survive or not, and I think no human action has a great deal of influence at
> this point. I will follow decom procedures, and keep track of the research
> and guidelines as to what is happening. But there is not a lot to talk about
> as far as I am concerned; the problem is spreading, but cavers can only
> follow the general guidelines and hope for the best. Unless one is directly
> involved in the research, opinions are based on little except what one reads
> or what one wants, as to access to caves.
>
> Massive talking about how bad it is, how bad the feds or state government is,
> or whatever does not change much. I guess that is fatalistic, but I am not
> convinced all the conversation and contention about what should be done is
> all that useful.
>
> Linda
>
> --- On Wed, 8/4/10, Diana Tomchick <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > From: Diana Tomchick <[email protected]>
> > Subject: Re: [Texascavers] TPWD, bats, and cavers
> > To: "Cave Tex" <[email protected]>
> > Date: Wednesday, August 4, 2010, 10:23 AM
> > While this is strictly true, in other
> > states (such as Arkansas) representatives of the U.S. Fish
> > & Wildlife Service have been trying their darndest to
> > influence private landowners to also close their caves to
> > visitation, which has resulted in some rather hard feelings
> > between the USFWS folks and the local cavers.
> >
> > Now I'm not trying to say that there aren't good reasons to
> > close bat caves, whether on public or private land, to
> > visitation due to fears of WNS transmission. I'm just
> > pointing out that in the surrounding states (AR, OK, NM)
> > this topic has been quite contentious for awhile now. The
> > confirmation of the Geomyces destructans fungus on a Myotis
> > velifer from a cave in far western Oklahoma has really
> > shaken up a lot of Oklahoma cavers, who thought that they
> > wouldn't have to deal with this problem for at least one or
> > two more years into the future. Unfortunately the future is
> > here now. No one knows how G. destructans will affect
> > Mexican freetailed bats, for example--one hopes that the
> > fact that they do not hibernate will help protect them, but
> > that's only a hope.
> >
> > Diana
> >
> > On Aug 4, 2010, at 8:39 AM, Andy Gluesenkamp wrote:
> >
> > > Don't forget that any TPWD action will effect only a
> > tiny percentage of Texas caves.
> > >
> > > Andrew G. Gluesenkamp, Ph.D.
> > > 700 Billie Brooks Drive
> > > Driftwood, Texas 78619
> > > (512) 799-1095
> > > [email protected]
> > >
> > > --- On Wed, 8/4/10, Logan McNatt <[email protected]>
> > wrote:
> > >
> > > From: Logan McNatt <[email protected]>
> > > Subject: Re: [Texascavers] TPWD, bats, and cavers
> > > To: "David Ochel" <[email protected]>
> > > Cc: [email protected]
> > > Date: Wednesday, August 4, 2010, 12:23 AM
> > >
> > > David, et al.,
> > >
> > > I'm not sure why the EO "010-005" is not yet posted on
> > the TPWD website, because #s 001 to 007 are (except 005).
> > >
> > > Please understand that the biologists and other folks
> > involved in the decision making process at TPWD are
> > consulting with other experts, and are not considering
> > issuing some kind of blanket order closing all TPWD
> > caves. In fact, the Park Managers at Colorado Bend
> > (Cory Evans), Government Canyon (Deirdre Hisler), Kickapoo
> > Cavern (Mike Knezek), and Devil's Sinkhole (Mark Garrett)
> > have been very vocal in their support of all the tremendous
> > volunteer work that cavers have donated over decades.
> > The Managers' input in the process of deciding which caves
> > to close (or not) definitely carries weight. As does
> > the input from a certain professional bat biologist named
> > Jim who also happens to be a very active TSA caver.
> > >
> > > Keep in mind that the significant bat caves on TPWD
> > properties have had restricted access for years, e.g.
> > Government Canyon Bat Cave, Stuart Bat Cave, and Devil's
> > Sinkhole. By far most of the work and/or recreational
> > caving done on the TSA projects does not involve bat
> > caves. As I said in my previous post, Gorman Cave is
> > the only cave that has been closed so far, and that is
> > because the bats have begun using the areas close to the
> > entrance(s), and because guided tours were going into the
> > cave. I personally trust all of the people
> > mentioned above to make reasonable decisions based on all
> > available information. I hope all of you are willing
> > to give them a chance to do their job, and please refrain
> > from wild speculations (which are of course exceedingly rare
> > on this list). O:-)
> > >
> > > WNS is a complicated, expanding, and little-understood
> > disease, so let's hope we all make the "right" decisions,
> > even though we're not sure what they are.
> > >
> > > For me the bottom line is: Imagine Texas without
> > bats.
> > >
> > > Sincerely,
> > >
> > > Logan
> > >
> > >
> > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > > David Ochel wrote:
> > > > Hmm...
> > > >
> > > > It's missing from the list of executive orders on
> > their website at
> > > > http://www.tpwd.state.tx.us/publications/executive_orders/
> > - I wonder
> > > > where on the TPWD site they intend to post the
> > list of closed caves
> > > > that's mentioned in the order?
> > > >
> > > > Cheers,
> > > > David
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > > Visit our website: http://texascavers.com
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> > > For additional commands, e-mail: [email protected]
> > >
> >
> > * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
> > Diana R. Tomchick
> > Associate Professor
> > University of Texas Southwestern Medical Center
> > Department of Biochemistry
> > 5323 Harry Hines Blvd.
> > Rm. ND10.214B
> > Dallas, TX 75390-8816, U.S.A.
> > Email: [email protected]
> > 214-645-6383 (phone)
> > 214-645-6353 (fax)
> >
> >
> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
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> > To unsubscribe, e-mail: [email protected]
> > For additional commands, e-mail: [email protected]
> >
> >
>
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