I think the name of the cave is drum roll please............. LADDER CAVE. If my memory serves me correctly.
On Fri, Jul 11, 2008 at 3:37 PM, Joe Ranzau <[email protected]> wrote: > The cave you are thinking of is on the Anderson ranch just north of CWAN. > The name is escaping me... Maybe Karen, Blair or Allen remembers... Emory > was the ranch hand. > > To the best of my knowledge it doesn't go under the Guad. Not deep or long > enough. Only used one extension ladder (a long one) to get down. But it did > go for quite a ways and got muddy after a keyhole. > > George correct me if I'm wrong but a cave would need to drop at least 100' > to get under the Guad from up where CWAN, Alzafar, Golden Fawn, Spring > Creek, Phillip's water cave etc are located. > > Joe > [email protected] > > Sent while mobile > > On Jul 11, 2008, at 3:24 PM, "George Veni" <[email protected]> > wrote: > > *Travis,* > > * * > > *While I've moved to New Mexico, I continue for the time being to maintain > the TSS files for Kendall County (as well as Bexar and Comal). No cave in > the files is reported to extend under the Guadalupe River. Can you or Joe > Ranzau (who I know is neck-deep in wedding preparations and other matters) > send me more information on the cave you mentioned below. Are you sure it > wasn't Cricket Cave, which is north of CWAN and on CWAN property? If the > cave is in the database, I'll get you more information on it. If it is new > to the database, then Texas is officially one cave richer. * > > * * > > *On the question of air-filled caves extending under rivers, the potential > for it depends on the elevation of the water table. Generally speaking, a > river is the surface expression and extension of the groundwater table. By > definition, all spaces below the water table are filled with water. The > Guadalupe River is one such stream and so no air-filled caves should exist > below it. However, many streams have "losing" reaches where the water table > is below the stream bed and the streams lose their flow the further they > extend over such areas, often going completely dry. Most of the streams that > extend across the Edwards Aquifer Recharge Zone are losing streams and > places where you can find caves below stream beds. I can think of several > examples.* > > * * > > *While karst aquifers are known to rapidly transmit water underground, > they are also good at perching water for short distances (relative to the > overall scheme of things). These aquifers are triple permeability (the > measure of how fast water flows through rock or soil) systems. The bedrock > or matrix permeability transmits water at rates of meters per thousands of > years and provides the bulk surface on which losing streams flow. > Significant water loss in losing streams occurs in fracture permeability, > where groundwater may be months or decades old, and in conduit permeability. > Hydrologically, conduits are generally any continuous cavity more than about > 15 mm in diameter or width. Caves are just big conduits that people can > enter. In terms of how water flows, its chemistry, ability to transport > sediment and provide habitat to critters, and vulnerability to > contamination, conduits and caves are largely indistinguishable. And I don't > think I need to describe to cavers how fast water can move in caves.* > > * * > > *George* > > * * > > * * > > *From:* [email protected] [mailto:[email protected] <[email protected]>] > *Sent:* Friday, July 11, 2008 11:50 AM > *To:* <[email protected]>[email protected] > *Subject:* RE: [Texascavers] RE: Explore a cave? > > > > I seem to recall going into a cave north of CWAN back in the day, maybe it > was called Chimney Cave or something? It was in a definite karst area (no > soil) and had a ladder going down into the entrance pit. Beyond the > entrance room, it was a series of stoop walking passages with places to > stand up here and there. Anyways, I was told it went directly under the > Guadalupe River near it's terminus, but I have no idea if that is true.. > There were mostly SA folks (I can remember Ranzau being there as a mere high > school senior just getting his feet wet in the caving world), Spencer Woods > and Amanda and I. Anyways, was this ever confirmed by a survey? > > TS > > (I think I even took a video camera and recorded the cave from entrance to > near the end, need to find that..) I also remember coming out of the cave > one night late and becoming COMPLETELY lost with fading lights and no > batteries. About the time we resolved to just sleep on the ground, we > stumbled onto the trail. We slept good in the owners spare quarters with > the heater that night. > > > > Actually, there are a number of caves in various places where you can walk > or crawl under active flowing streams. Blackhouse Mountain Cave in > Tennessee is a great example as one of the passages in this multi-mile long > cave goes completely under a flowing stream and has an entrance on both > sides of the creek. > > > > Geary > > > > > > > >
