Hi John: I started caving in the east where private ownership of caves was the norm. New York and New England, then Virginia and West Virginia. I moved west and have dealt with government ownership of caves: State or Federal by various agencies. So I understand your issues quite well. In many ways it is fair to say that we cavers are now reaping what we have sowed. The history of the last 50 years of exploration and discovery in Ft. Stanton cave in New Mexico (as well documented in the recent publication 12 Miles from Daylight ) so clearly documents the complications resulting from agency ownership. The way we go caving is affected by the way caves are owned and managed: by an individual, a family, a private trust, or a bureaucracy. That, however, is a different (but not entirely unrelated) question from the one I intended to ask, which was focused on the future membership of the NSS. How do we acquire new NSS members? Most members have been recruited either from existing cavers or by NSS groups recruiting new members from the interested public through structured educational and recruitment campaigns. Most of us probably agree that our goal is to create an educated public aware of the value and fragility of our cave resources as well as a body of people who actually spend some of their time exploring and studying caves. The intended goal of my question is to lead to new, younger, members of the NSS to carry on our goals into the changing future. Thanks for your thoughts and comments. You raise the management issues that complicate our enjoyment of "just going caving". DirtDoc xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Dirt Doc Question By: John Hutchison (White House, Tennessee) idigca...@yahoo.com Dwight Deal asked a question. "In your thinking, John, what is the balance between cavers and the caves? Our near-term experiences vrs the resource itself?' All I have to relate to is my own personal observance. In years past caves were much easier to visit when they were privately owned. Once government became involved the issue of access became a hassle, an extra expense, and worst of all, a no go. Today, most government owned, or controlled caves are closed outright (unless you know the right person). Others require a permit, hunting license fee, or all three. One area in my state wants to charge everyone $15 a day per vehicle for a day trip and that does not include a permit to go caving. No camping, no caving, even though there are some great caves on the property. It is also a hassle to acquire the land permit as you have to go when the office is open and it is often not close to where you want to go. Private landowners were much easier to deal with. You went, you asked and you got to go or you didn't. Free. Here in TN we had a great cove and cave called Camps Gulf. Both were pristine. Then the local state park acquired the cave and began shuttling non caver tourists to the cave. Once they knew where it was they would sometimes come back on their own and trash the cave. So that was the excuse used to gate off the entire cove. No more camping, no more driving a 4x4 up the cove. The cave was pristine before the state acquired it. So is it really better when everything is "proteceted"? Once "protected" people tend to sneak or breach a gate and vandalize just because they are P.O.'d that they can't access "public" owned land. So, as far as I can tell, the best protection of all, was not telling the general public where all the caves are. Grottoes were the best way to learn caver etiquette, proper procedures, safety, environmental concerns, technique, equipment, and cave locations while accompanied by trained cavers. The state of TN has bought up thousands of acres of land with hundreds of great caves and paid for it with public money yet most of it is off limits to the public. Is that really right? I don't think so. Sometimes I wish I could live in the past.
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