Thank you Sir,but I hope and day dream that this musing may be investigated,after all we are living in emotions,which are formless and abstract. YM
On Sat, Sep 17, 2022 at 2:52 PM Rajaram Krishnamurthy <[email protected]> wrote: > Sir > It is incomprehensible to gauge the out flow of emotional rivers in > and outside the earth and space and beyond. As you yourself inscribed as > "HYPOTHESIS" , it is an imaginary level abstract. Hypothesis is a theory > conceptualised by some erratic thoughts which cannot, originated, from > perfect square, as far as my comprehension goes. Emotion is only a quality > desired and described by a pro-psychologist starting from the west. And > classic source is a truth hence classic; abstract it may remain as long as > the obstinacy , not to know it , may persist. Unless the literature is > studied , one cannot handle the class as a lecturer; and every aspect of > the learning, only lead kindly, only towards that principle. So classic is > the truth and if one does not find it in a classic , then the thinking has > no basis. As you said somewhere, always there is only a DISCOVERY and not > any NEW TRUTH THAT COULD BE INVENTED. Discovery needs the roots. > Invention is understood as only a modification of existence. It is a > child's pleasure, innocent . Research as it does mean is only a RE- SEARCH > ,discovered from the earth or space, existed already, but understood very > late or may be, wrongly understood and corrected later also. If someone > were to deny the truth as not suitable, that is stopping the thought > process, if I am correct. An hypothesis ,unfounded as a river is only a > verse of Milton or Kamban utopia, that can be enjoyed but cannot be > comprehended as truth. KR IRS 17922 > > On Sat, 17 Sept 2022 at 12:02, Markendeya Yeddanapudi < > [email protected]> wrote: > >> Sir, >> The Rivers of Emotions I hypothesize are not rivers of water but >> abstract flows.We can trace the origin but how they merge into >> other emotion flows is yet to be researched.For example the emotion flows >> from the evergreen equatorial forests mix into the adjacent tropical >> climatic emotions.The tropical climatic emotions mix into the equatorial >> emotions and also into the adjacent tropical desert emotions.Emotions >> originate from organisms on the basis of breathing,smelling and sensing. >> Sir,instead of searching and searching for some classic source which may >> or may not suit, why not use your vast learning to express your original >> musing? >> YM >> >> On Sat, Sep 17, 2022 at 11:03 AM Rajaram Krishnamurthy < >> [email protected]> wrote: >> >>> I shall narrate it from the atharva yajur and Rig vedas in space. a >>> little later. KR IRS 17922 >>> >>> On Sat, 17 Sept 2022 at 10:51, Markendeya Yeddanapudi < >>> [email protected]> wrote: >>> >>>> Sir, >>>> My Hypothesis is Rivers of Emotions,of air in the first layer of the >>>> atmosphere,the troposphere.I mean Rivers of particular emotions creating >>>> air from the particular climatic regions,not the Rivers of water. >>>> YM >>>> >>>> On Sat, Sep 17, 2022 at 10:41 AM Rajaram Krishnamurthy < >>>> [email protected]> wrote: >>>> >>>>> Immediately to my mind comes China's River Yangtze River of sorrow. There >>>>> are two major rivers in China - the Huang He or Yellow River and the >>>>> Yangtze River. The Yellow River is known as the Sorrow of China, because >>>>> it >>>>> changed its course and caused frequent floods.Damodar River was >>>>> earlier known as the "River of Sorrows"as it used to flood many areas of >>>>> Bardhaman, Hooghly, Howrah and Medinipur districts. Even now the floods >>>>> sometimes affect the lower Damodar Valley, but the havoc it wreaked in >>>>> earlier years is now a matter of history.. Kosi river in India >>>>> situated in Bihar and Jharkhand is known as “Sorrow of Bihar” or “River of >>>>> Sorrow" in India. Sometimes Brahmaputra is also called “River of Sorrow" >>>>> as >>>>> Kosi river changes its course while Brahmaputra overflows and causes >>>>> floods >>>>> during the rainy season. Rest in next KR IRS 17922 >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On Sat, 17 Sept 2022 at 10:31, Markendeya Yeddanapudi < >>>>> [email protected]> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> Sir, >>>>>> Thank you very much for your nobility to relate my musings to the >>>>>> classic texts,part of your vast learning.Sir,in very simple English >>>>>> without >>>>>> any Sanskrit,will you please write whether any Rivers of Emotions are >>>>>> identified in Geography-Climatology?Please do not even mention the name >>>>>> of >>>>>> any Sanskrit Text as they are beyond my understanding. >>>>>> In the simplest language possible which only I can manage will you >>>>>> please write if any already identified in Geography? >>>>>> YM >>>>>> >>>>>> On Sat, Sep 17, 2022 at 9:16 AM Rajaram Krishnamurthy < >>>>>> [email protected]> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> EMOTIONS IN INDIAN PHILOSOPHICAL BACKGROUND : 1 In Indian >>>>>>> literature, emotions are discussed in several different contexts : >>>>>>> first, within aesthetics (*rasa*). The word *rasa* can mean juice, >>>>>>> sap, essence, condiment or even flavour and refers to the different >>>>>>> sentiments invoked by a work of art, for example a piece of music. >>>>>>> Secondly, emotions are discussed within the context of the *bhakti* >>>>>>> (devotional) >>>>>>> movement. Here particular emphasis is placed on cultivating the emotion >>>>>>> of >>>>>>> love for a supreme being, e.g., Śiva. >>>>>>> Thirdly, they are discussed in various tantric traditions. >>>>>>> These traditions form a counterbalance to the ascetic ideal of >>>>>>> classical philosophical texts (fourth context in which emotions are >>>>>>> discussed) in that they encourage “living out” emotions (and >>>>>>> desires) without forming any attachment to them. This entry focuses >>>>>>> on the emotions in this fourth context, namely classical Indian >>>>>>> philosophical thinking, which includes Brāhmaṇical as well as Buddhist >>>>>>> texts, among others. >>>>>>> While there is no equivalent for the term “emotion” in Sanskrit, the >>>>>>> concept nevertheless plays an important role in Indian philosophy. Terms >>>>>>> used in Sanskrit texts include *vedanā* (feeling) and *bhāva* (feeling) >>>>>>> as well as names of individual emotions, such as *rāga* (love, >>>>>>> attraction), *dveṣa* (hatred, aversion), *harṣa* (joy), *bhaya* (fear) >>>>>>> and *śoka* (sorrow). One of the reasons why emotions are >>>>>>> philosophically interesting in India and the West is their relationship >>>>>>> with the mental phenomenon of *vijñāna* or *jñāna* which is >>>>>>> translated as “cognition”. The relationship between emotion and >>>>>>> cognition >>>>>>> is important for any account of reason and rationality. While the >>>>>>> importance of the emotions for rational deliberation and decision-making >>>>>>> has been acknowledged in recent discussions in the philosophy of mind, >>>>>>> the >>>>>>> history of Western philosophy contains many views, for example those of >>>>>>> Plato, Aristotle, and the Stoics, which emphasize the dangerous and >>>>>>> destructive role of the emotions. At the heart of these views lies a >>>>>>> division of our mental lives into cognitions and feelings. >>>>>>> 2 Cognitions are representational thoughts. They >>>>>>> are often regarded as rational because they are capable of representing >>>>>>> the >>>>>>> external world and therefore they provide us with access to the external >>>>>>> world, based on the best available evidence. So, according to this view >>>>>>> of >>>>>>> rationality, when I think that there is a book on the table, based on my >>>>>>> available evidence, and there really is one, then my thought is >>>>>>> rational. >>>>>>> However, if I am hallucinating that there is a book on the table, my >>>>>>> thought that there is a book might also be rational because the >>>>>>> available >>>>>>> evidence points towards this thought. In order to make sure that our >>>>>>> thoughts represent reality correctly, we require an account of what >>>>>>> counts >>>>>>> as good evidence, which is one of the main foci of epistemology in >>>>>>> Indian >>>>>>> and Western philosophy. >>>>>>> 3 The reason why many philosophers regard the emotions as >>>>>>> an obstacle to rational thought is the influence of the >>>>>>> non-representational feeling. The fact that feelings do not seem to have >>>>>>> objects means, according to some views, that they can interfere with >>>>>>> rational thought. According to these views, rational thought, which is >>>>>>> representational and therefore object-directed, is subject to disturbing >>>>>>> interferences from the feelings. The feelings themselves, however, are >>>>>>> non-rational because they arise due to some physical imbalance in the >>>>>>> body, >>>>>>> for example through an imbalance of the various “humours”. This >>>>>>> imbalance >>>>>>> can negatively influence rational thought. An example is the person who >>>>>>> acts against her better judgment because she is in the grip of some >>>>>>> feeling. This is of course also the basis for the term “passion” as >>>>>>> something that we “suffer”, which was discussed by many philosophers in >>>>>>> the >>>>>>> seventeenth and eighteenth centuries, e.g., Descartes, Spinoza and Hume. >>>>>>> Since rational thought is an ideal for many philosophers and the >>>>>>> feelings >>>>>>> can interfere with this ideal, the natural consequence seems to be to >>>>>>> advocate for the extinction or at least the control of the feelings >>>>>>> and, as >>>>>>> a consequence, of the emotions. This is what many philosophers >>>>>>> throughout >>>>>>> the history of philosophy have done, most notably of course the Stoics. >>>>>>> While they often recognize that the emotions contain a cognitive, and >>>>>>> therefore potentially rational, element, they try to uncover this >>>>>>> element >>>>>>> by advocating its separation from the affect. Of course, if the affect >>>>>>> were >>>>>>> to be purged from the emotion, the resulting cognition would cease to >>>>>>> be an >>>>>>> emotion. >>>>>>> 4 The Nyāya-Vaiśeṣika account of the emotions involves a >>>>>>> strict division into cognition (*jñāna*) and mental phenomena that >>>>>>> include a feeling aspect, such as love or attraction (*rāga*) and >>>>>>> aversion (*dveṣa*). One of the main reasons for this is the >>>>>>> acceptance of the existence of a permanent immaterial self (*ātman*) >>>>>>> by the Nyāya-Vaiśeṣika philosophers. According to their arguments, the >>>>>>> *ātman* is a substance (*dravya*) which possesses several qualities >>>>>>> (*guṇas*), such as cognition, desire, effort, aversion, pleasure >>>>>>> and pain. This enumeration shows that there is no common Sanskrit term >>>>>>> for >>>>>>> the concept “emotion” in the Nyāya-Vaiśeṣika texts. One general term >>>>>>> used >>>>>>> is *saṃvedana* which translates as “feeling”, for example >>>>>>> *sukha-saṃvedana* (feeling of pleasure). The important aspect of >>>>>>> the Nyāya-Vaiśeṣika account is that the individual emotions, such as >>>>>>> attachment and aversion are regarded as defects (*doṣas*) [NB >>>>>>> 1.1.18] or impurities (*upadhā*) [VS and VSU 6.2.4]. These defects >>>>>>> are the result of ignorance (*mithyājñāna*) and they give rise to >>>>>>> actions that lead to the feeling of pleasure or pain. The reason why >>>>>>> this >>>>>>> is regarded as negative is that the feeling of pleasure and pain is >>>>>>> responsible for our attachment to the world and, more importantly, for >>>>>>> our >>>>>>> attachment to the self and therefore presents an obstacle to liberation. >>>>>>> For this reason, any emotion is deemed to have a negative influence on >>>>>>> the >>>>>>> individual. However, NV 1.1.22 mentions one exception, namely the desire >>>>>>> for eternal pleasure and absence from pain which is final liberation. >>>>>>> While, strictly speaking, a desire is not an emotion, it usually has the >>>>>>> same negative effect because it results in attachment to the object of >>>>>>> desire. The desire for eternal pleasure, however, is not detrimental to >>>>>>> liberation; in fact it is a precondition for liberation. >>>>>>> 5 In his commentary on the *Brahma-sūtras*, Śaṃkara makes the >>>>>>> well-known argument that the self (*ātman*) exists because its >>>>>>> existence is the only way to account for the idea of a subject of >>>>>>> experience. This argument relies on the idea that the self has certain >>>>>>> mental qualities, which are termed *manas* (mind), *buddhi* >>>>>>> (intellect), *vijñāna* (cognition) or *citta* (consciousness), >>>>>>> depending on what mental function is ascribed to them. Different mental >>>>>>> functions are doubt, resolution, egoism or recollection [BSBh 2.4.6]. >>>>>>> These >>>>>>> mental functions, regardless of how they are referred to, have several >>>>>>> qualities or modifications, including desire, imagination, doubt, faith, >>>>>>> want of faith, memory, forgetfulness, shame, reflection and fear [BSBh >>>>>>> 2.3.32] as well as love, aversion, pleasure and pain [BSBh 2.3.29]. This >>>>>>> means that, according to Śaṃkara, the mind’s cognitive and emotional >>>>>>> abilities are the qualities of our mental functioning which is different >>>>>>> from the self. At the heart of Śaṃkara’s teaching lies the notion >>>>>>> that the true knowledge of the *ātman* is knowledge that is devoid >>>>>>> of any of the above-mentioned qualities. In this respect one can find a >>>>>>> similarity between the Nyāya school and Śaṃkara because for both of them >>>>>>> cognitive and emotional qualities are due to false knowledge or >>>>>>> ignorance >>>>>>> of the true self. This means that the removal of ignorance results in a >>>>>>> removal of emotions as well as cognitions. However, it is clear that the >>>>>>> emotions present the main obstacle for the realization of the true self >>>>>>> because desire and aversion lead to attachment and clinging which cause >>>>>>> us >>>>>>> to neglect the search for liberation that is crucial to Vedānta >>>>>>> teaching. >>>>>>> So, while Śaṃkara distinguishes between what Western philosophers would >>>>>>> call cognitions and emotions, he does not present a purely cognitive >>>>>>> state >>>>>>> of mind without emotions as the ideal state of mind because such a state >>>>>>> would be impossible. By definition, any purely cognitive state of mind >>>>>>> presupposes the existence of a mind or intellect. For Śaṃkara, however, >>>>>>> the >>>>>>> problem is that a mind will always have certain qualities that would be >>>>>>> called emotive in Western philosophy, such as desire, aversion, hatred, >>>>>>> pleasure or pain. So, as long as there are cognitions, there will >>>>>>> also be emotions. Therefore, both must be eliminated in order for the >>>>>>> self >>>>>>> to attain liberation. >>>>>>> 6 According to Sāṃkhya philosophy, the experiences of >>>>>>> intellect, egoity, and mind, and the “raw feels” such as frustration or >>>>>>> satisfaction—or, in other words, what conventional dualists would >>>>>>> consider >>>>>>> to be “inherently private”—are simply subtle reflections of primordial >>>>>>> materiality, a primordial materiality undergoing continuous >>>>>>> transformation >>>>>>> by means of its constituent unfolding as spontaneous activity, >>>>>>> reflective >>>>>>> discerning, and determinate formulation. Thus, the modern reductive >>>>>>> materialists’ claim that “sensations are identical with certain brain >>>>>>> processes” would have a peculiar counterpart in the Sāṃkhya claim that >>>>>>> “awarenesses” [Sanskrit terms omitted] are identical with certain >>>>>>> *guṇa* modalities. (Larson and Bhattacharya 1987, p. 76) The >>>>>>> relationship between *puruṣa* and *prakṛti* in Sāṃkhya philosophy >>>>>>> is complex: *puruṣa* as pure consciousness is characterized by >>>>>>> inaction (*akartṛbhāva*) and pure presence (*sākṣitva*). It does >>>>>>> not stand in any relation with *prakṛti*, which comprises the >>>>>>> material world, including mental processes. Nevertheless, *puruṣa* forms >>>>>>> the foundation of *prakṛti*. This means that *puruṣa* provides the >>>>>>> meaning for all material processes. Thus *prakṛti* exists for >>>>>>> *puruṣa* and it is only because of this that the world is not >>>>>>> simply a collection of meaningless physical processes. In addition, the >>>>>>> intellect as part of *prakṛti* is supposed to realize that it is >>>>>>> not consciousness and it is to become aware of pure consciousness as the >>>>>>> way to liberation. This means that the intellect is supposed to >>>>>>> understand >>>>>>> the contentless pure consciousness but of course in order to do so it >>>>>>> would >>>>>>> have to become contentless itself, which seems impossible. Therefore, >>>>>>> the >>>>>>> intellect can only achieve this in an indirect way without cognition. >>>>>>> Instead, we require meditative or yogic exercises to understand the >>>>>>> difference between *puruṣa* and *prakṛti*. >>>>>>> 7 In the *Yogasūtras*, Patañjali provides a method for >>>>>>> understanding the difference between *puruṣa* and *prakṛti* via a >>>>>>> series of exercises that aim at stripping away all of the disturbing >>>>>>> influences from the mind, including what Western philosophers would >>>>>>> classify as emotions. In fact, Patañjali argues that the mind is >>>>>>> affected >>>>>>> by afflictions (*kleśas*) that keep it from becoming clear about >>>>>>> the difference between *puruṣa* and *prakṛti*. In YS 2.3, Patañjali >>>>>>> lists the afflictions: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Ignorance (*avidyā*), egoism (*asmitā*), attachment (*rāga*), >>>>>>> aversion (*dveṣa*) and adherence [to mundane existence] ( >>>>>>> *abhiniveśa*) are afflictions. [YS 2.3] >>>>>>> >>>>>>> These afflictions need to be removed in order to achieve liberation. >>>>>>> Unlike in many Western accounts of the emotions, the removal of the >>>>>>> afflictions is not supposed to lead to a form of rational thinking that >>>>>>> is >>>>>>> divorced from any emotion. Rather, rational thinking itself needs to be >>>>>>> overcome, in order to achieve true liberation by separating *puruṣa* >>>>>>> from *prakṛti*. The main reason why emotions such as attachment >>>>>>> and aversion are regarded as afflictions is that they lead to a desire >>>>>>> to >>>>>>> change our circumstances and therefore to an attachment to the world >>>>>>> . >>>>>>> >>>>>>> 8 A number of themes emerge from this overview: 1) The >>>>>>> Western categories of “cognition” and “emotion” do not have equivalents >>>>>>> in >>>>>>> classical Indian philosophy. This is interesting because it suggests >>>>>>> that >>>>>>> these concepts are not psychological categories but perhaps social >>>>>>> categories. While there has been some anthropological work done by, for >>>>>>> example, Catherine Lutz on the differences in the categorization of >>>>>>> specific emotions across cultures, there is the possibility that the >>>>>>> category as a whole might not translate into all cultures (see Danziger >>>>>>> 1997). 2) One common theme in classical Indian philosophy is that the >>>>>>> phenomena that would be labelled as “emotions” in Western philosophy >>>>>>> are to >>>>>>> be eradicated because they prevent liberation. 3) None of the Indian >>>>>>> philosophical schools aim at “emotion-free” cognitions as an end in >>>>>>> itself. >>>>>>> In fact, those states that would be labelled “cognitions” in Western >>>>>>> philosophy are also to be eradicated because they also prevent >>>>>>> liberation. >>>>>>> ( A research paper on Brahma sutra bhashya courtesy) 17922 >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On Sat, 17 Sept 2022 at 07:35, Markendeya Yeddanapudi < >>>>>>> [email protected]> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>> *Mar**The Rivers of Emotions-Geography* >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> For all of us, rivers mean, the flows of water. But breathing is >>>>>>>> the basis of emotions. We >>>>>>>> breathe,smell,sense,perceive,understand,interact,act,help,identify,develop >>>>>>>> identifications, all from the ocean of emotions-the troposphere. The >>>>>>>> angle >>>>>>>> of the Sun’s ray or the latitude, determines the Thermodynamic >>>>>>>> situation of >>>>>>>> the place. The latitude determines the particular flora and fauna. They >>>>>>>> interact with each other, via breathing, smelling, sensing, perceiving >>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>> by exhaling their perceptions in smells which create the macro >>>>>>>> emotional >>>>>>>> and hormonal habits. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> The equatorial evergreen forests must be creating gigantic flows of >>>>>>>> emotion laden airflows or the rivers of emotions, mixing with the great >>>>>>>> ocean-the troposphere. If the waters of the various rivers flow into >>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>> seas, the emotions flow into the ocean of air-the troposphere, the >>>>>>>> great >>>>>>>> ocean of emotions.Every climatic region must be causing rivers of >>>>>>>> particular emotions. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> The emotions shall be studied on the basis of Biocentrism and they >>>>>>>> shall not be narrowed and suffocated by anthropocentrism, which means >>>>>>>> simply, concentrating on the humans only. We need to get back our macro >>>>>>>> bearings to feel our macro identity, to identify the rivers of >>>>>>>> emotions in >>>>>>>> the troposphere. It means that there is a gigantic macro flow of >>>>>>>> emotional >>>>>>>> perception and understanding. The emotions shall not be contaminated >>>>>>>> by any >>>>>>>> technology, as no machine can feel like an organism. Machines are >>>>>>>> designed >>>>>>>> to be mechanical and not emotional. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> In free, lush and thick nature, the air creates positive emotions. >>>>>>>> An organism wants to be very near another organism, propelled by >>>>>>>> breathing >>>>>>>> love. Lovers hug each other, want to breathe together, feel together, >>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>> simply destroy the physical distance between each other. When the >>>>>>>> airflow >>>>>>>> becomes the flow of love, one would want to embrace the planet earth, >>>>>>>> by >>>>>>>> hugging the trees, animals, by swimming, and by doing everything to be >>>>>>>> part >>>>>>>> of nature. One develops love for the soil bacteria. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Today technology has robbed us of our emotional relations. We kiss >>>>>>>> the cell phones and computers and cannot tolerate another human >>>>>>>> physical >>>>>>>> presence. We through more and more machine barriers, to block the other >>>>>>>> human beings. We no longer can feel nature and always thirst for the >>>>>>>> latest >>>>>>>> and new machine, which we discord after sometime as machines are not >>>>>>>> emotional. We hanker for the latest and the new. We suffer from >>>>>>>> discontent, >>>>>>>> which our hormones transport continuously to every cell and breathe >>>>>>>> out the >>>>>>>> discontent which the other organisms breathe. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> It is for the Universities to free humanity from the technological >>>>>>>> trance, and take the Biosphere home, the emotions. They have to first >>>>>>>> add >>>>>>>> to their libraries free nature also, opening the way for perception via >>>>>>>> inhalation of emotion messages and exhalation of emotion responses. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> YM >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> -- >>>>>> *Mar* >>>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> *Mar* >>>> >>> >> >> -- >> *Mar* >> > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Thatha_Patty" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to [email protected]. > To view this discussion on the web visit > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/thatha_patty/CAL5XZooy9V%3DV6N0s7Z-MvxgXZMOr_5Cqhs3Chk8QcdHBxZ1beQ%40mail.gmail.com > <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/thatha_patty/CAL5XZooy9V%3DV6N0s7Z-MvxgXZMOr_5Cqhs3Chk8QcdHBxZ1beQ%40mail.gmail.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> > . > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Thatha_Patty" group. 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