I have forwarded your MANNAR AND CO (KALYANA PARISU JOKE  NAMMA MANNAR AND
CO) WRITE UPto show what is the level of your ignorance to compare
potty and rig vedam, and so many vedic texts; and still clinging to
establish your ignorance pithru; I had written the grammar also. Pithru is
pithy even today; Pita is pita; Pitu is pitu even today; and the root word
is Pith. Putran emanated from that; Puth -hell word from that . As I
tell you if you are finished , keep mum. Do not feign as an
english professor sanskrit professor as you do not know anything or else at
80 you won't write Hanuman has a son etc. I never defend myself as I have a
reasonable sanskrit background and know how also; never I feign like you.
You thought you were clever and thinking it as AVAL hit the worrell; now
faded away; writes some nonsense. Like that I can cite 400 verses ; only 4
I took to distinguish with grammar. I have a long passage on ETYMOLOGY OF
SANSKRIT GRAMMAR BOOK sHALL i SCAN YOU AND SEND TO START LEARNING ALPHABETS
IN SANSKRIT? hINDI KNOWING IS NOT SANSKRIT KNOWLEDGE; INCIDENTALLY pEETHA
IN HINDI CAME PITU PITA FEED DRINK PROTECT ETC  dONT SHOW OUT YOUR AND
YOUR JALRA FACE; ALL KNEW YOUR SANSKRIT KNOWLEDGE from pottai. FYI:  (even
word pottai without knowledge you wrote) In Tamil, the word "pottai" used
to indicate something defective, not skilled etc.. Sometimes the left hand
is referred to as pottai kai (hand). A defective eye (blind) is denoted as
pottai kannu (eye). And the female is also denoted as pottai pillai
(child). A coward is also denoted as pottai payal (guy). Female of animal
species is referred to as pottai (as in pettai kozhi - hen). To be a female
has been denoted as defective, imperfect, weak, useless etc. in Tamil.
This word is still in use in TN  Thank you body apply medicine for bleeding
nose. KR IRS 2524

---------- Forwarded message ---------
From: gopala krishnan <[email protected]>
Date: Thu, 2 May 2024 at 10:51
Subject: Re: [iyer123] Re: [KeralaIyers] PITHU GOTRA part 1 2524
To: [email protected] <[email protected]>, Patty Thatha <
[email protected]>, Kerala Iyer <[email protected]>,
Narayanaswamy Iyer <[email protected]>, APS Mani <[email protected]>,
Rajaram Krishnamurthy <[email protected]>, Laxminarayan Sarma <
[email protected]>, [email protected] <
[email protected]>, N Sekar <[email protected]>, Venkat Raman <
[email protected]>


By centuries  and by decades many changes have come in using any language.
At one time a female girl was called  as "pottai" in Tamilnadu villages. Do
we call so now? . In Kerala it was common to call wife as achhi and husband
as Nair. I don't think  even in a rural village such words are used now.

As I understand for decades the dead persons are referred and called pithru
in Sanskrit. In all our Vedic mantras they are pithrus. During srardha even
my father recited in manthras       as Pithru.
I have never seen a sasthrikal reciting as a Sanskrit mantra with Pitu in
place of Pithru.

There may be one time books where pithru is also told as pitu as Mr Rajaram
referred. But it does not mean in the current decades instead of pithru,
pithu is used.

It is a pity, to justify his typo, Mr Rajaram refer to books where pitu is
used.  So in future when sasthrikal recite mantras during the srardha of
his late  father, Mr Rajaram will correct pithru as pitu  refering the
bookshe quoted  and advise sasthrikal in future to use pitu instead of
pithru. Kashtam.

Gopalakrishnan

On Thursday, 2 May, 2024 at 08:21:06 pm IST, Laxminarayan Sarma <
[email protected]> wrote:


Agreed Shri Gopalakrishnan-ji

Let the BASTARD rot in his own shit



On Thu, 2 May, 2024, 7:45 pm Rajaram Krishnamurthy, <[email protected]>
wrote:

*1    pituṃ* < *pitum* < *pitu*

[noun], accusative, singular, masculine

“food.”

पितुं नु स्तोषं महो धर्माणं तविषीम् । यस्य त्रितो व्योजसा वृत्रं
विपर्वमर्दयत् ॥

pituṃ nu stoṣam maho dharmāṇaṃ taviṣīm | yasya trito vy ojasā vṛtraṃ
viparvam ardayat ||RV

“I glorify Pitu, the great, the upholder, the strong, by whose invigorating
power Trita slew themutilated Vṛtra.”

Commentary by Sāyaṇa: Ṛgveda-bhāṣya

Anna-devatā = anna, the divinity presidingover food, or merely food;

Pitu = pālakam, that which nourishes;

2      verse 3  Sanatkumara samhita

कृष्ण-मन्त्रा मया लब्धा सरस्-तोये पितुः परे
ते सर्वे साधिता यत्नान् मन्त्र-राजाद्यो मया

*kṛṣṇa-mantrā mayā labdhā saras-toye pituḥ pare*
*te sarve sādhitā yatnān mantra-rājādyo mayā*

*kṛṣṇa <https://www.wisdomlib.org/definition/krishna#purana>-mantrāḥ—*
 Kṛṣṇa-mantras <https://www.wisdomlib.org/definition/mantra#purana>;* mayā
<https://www.wisdomlib.org/definition/maya#purana>—*by me;* labdhā—*
obtained;* saras <https://www.wisdomlib.org/definition/sara#purana>-toye—*by
the water's edge;* pituḥ—*of the father;* pare—*others;* te—*they;* sarve—*
all;* sādhitāḥ <https://www.wisdomlib.org/definition/sadhita#purana>—*
attained;* yatnāt—*by effort;* mantra
<https://www.wisdomlib.org/definition/mantra#purana>-* *rājādyaḥ—*beginning
with the king of mantras;* mayā—*by me.

. . . from my father I carefully learned the king of mantras and many other
Kṛṣṇa-mantras as we sat by the water.

4    Verse 3.221 Manu smrithi

पिता यस्य निवृत्तः स्याज् जीवेच्चापि पितामहः ।
पितुः स नाम सङ्कीर्त्य कीर्तयेत् प्रपितामहम् ॥ २२१ ॥

*pitā** yasya nivṛttaḥ syāj jīveccāpi pitāmahaḥ* |
*pituḥ sa nāma saṅkīrtya kīrtayet prapitāmaham* || 221 ||

He whose father is dead, but grandfather is living, should mention the
great-grandfather after having pronounced the name of the father.—(221)

 KR     Mr Gopalakrishnan wants to justify some how that he is in level and
he is harmless; already I wrote to him, that we other than the three
mosquitoes, we do not bother about anything but read and pass through; but
it was the act of Gopalakrishnan his high pedestal observations of my
English and followed by the other one and plus ,which prompted me to index
their follies; now he himself turns the table and also adds that mistakes
are common etc, like devils ’preaching the script; and where was his brain
then?

     And I shall point out content errors always I feel all are responsible
their writing which may stay for millennium to come and we are answerable
to the posterity. So Gopalakrishnan who does not do any home work, but only
dries his tail as others, miss a lot which I point out and I am least
bothered about his English and am not soared about his Malayalam too.

      Now those who had read would have understood who is hasty by this
time; Gopalakrishnan as usual, slipped into the well; Pitru, Pitu and pita
are all genetic root words in Sanskrit, having several meanings and used
only in some context; Pitru is sradham concerned as shown in (4) above,
pita is handled nicely by Manu. Pitu is used in Rig Vedam (1) and sanat
samhita reflects its meaning also. GOTRA is only for LIVE and in sradham
generation alone that matters than the gotra; Gotra is for alive mainly, as
well as, important from PITA angle; and Pitu is version of Pita as well as
feed as food as seen above. PITU GOTRA is not a slip, as visioned by
Gopalakrishnan, but GOTRA fed in connection with father being narrated.
Thank you NB   Before finding fault learn sir.

K Rajaram IRS  2524

NB2    I am not finding fault in your Q and A; You are writing
misinformation mainly misleading readers to believe as you wrote; for
example among so many immediately I do remember is your line of Mount
Everest is not the tallest mountain; THAAT YOU OUGHT TO HAVE VERIFIED; it
is very old data where Kilimanjaro from its plateau  sea level though only
15000 ft appeared to be taller; but Himalaya is measured 29000 feet from
its foot hill. So you always write misinformation only as you want to
reflect your superiority and you err always like PITU , wants to present
yourself in better light. No hard feelings; Compiler means not copy and
paste anything; it is reading, thinking. analysing. fixing error and write
the genuine facts. But what you do is CP of some kids who are right in
their view but you are 80+ and so without knowing much shall refrain from
anything which u dont understand and shall not pretend. ask your retd
canteen worker from jumping.

On Thu, 2 May 2024 at 00:10, gopala krishnan <[email protected]> wrote:

Mr Rajaram,

You are *hurried* and never see what you have typed before posting. You
have typed instead of pithrugothra, pithu gothra. It is the 3rd time you
commit these types of mistakes.

It is not a big mistake, but can be termed as typo error,
*if you are not finding fault with ME  for a compiled QA, even questioning
what is compilation and finding fault with each and every thing posted by
me. *

*Please note mistakes can be made by all, and  all others are having
caliber equal to you  if not above you.*


I request not to abuse me for this mail with your usual abuse thevidiya
payalae ( prostititutes's son) or muttal  or bastard etc.


*Gopalakrishnan*

On Thursday, 2 May, 2024 at 07:57:30 am IST, Rajaram Krishnamurthy <
[email protected]> wrote:


PITHUS GOTRAS

     The word Gotra comes from the Sanskrit Gau, cow and Trahi, a shed or
stable. Translated literally, Gotra means ‘cowshed’ or ‘cow pen’ but the
term has several connotations across Vedic literature. One of the earliest
instances of ‘Gotra’ being used to denote paternal lineage appears around 1000
BCE in the Atharva Veda, a sacred Hindu text, where the word is used to
refer to ‘clans’ or ‘groups’ descended from a common paternal ancestor.
Subsequently, the Chandogya Upanishad, another Hindu text , defines a Gotra
as a mechanism through which the paternal lineage of an individual could be
traced and identified while according to ancient Sanskrit linguist Panini, in
his Ashtadhyayi, the term is equated with the word ‘progeny’. Ancient Hindu
scriptures such as the Upanishads and the Rigveda outline the conception
and evolution of the Brahminical Gotric system. These texts posit that
‘Gotras’ emerged initially as a uniquely Brahminical concept; a marker of
the paternal lineage of individuals within the caste. All the details would
go to show that GOTRA was less known in three Vedas including Rig Vedam but
assumed importance only later from the generations passed off. However the
generic Engineering started long ago than the DNA of the west; though X and
Y were not mentioned in the Vedic period, MALE PROGENY was considered
important for the increase in the population. But that provoked a wrong
sense of minds among the males within 500 years, to torture the women. Even
though Manusmrithi and Parasara and other smritis and Grahya sutrams, have
clauses , demeaning the women clan, equally it should be considered, that
even the male 4 varnas and especially the Brahmin varna, are being looked
own; that shows, while viewing the broad spectrum of the goodness of the
humanity, equally the bad elements were viewed so drastically,
requisitioning reasonable punishments also. As a matter of fact Vedic
constitution would punish the higher in clans severely than the lower ones.
Hence Gotras which started only with the 8 Rishis started expanding as
populations and Regions increased, ; started from Brahmin community to
spread all over to all varnas of all the regions; now unaccountable Gotras;
more the division among the varnas, more gotras; even the last varna
adopted general Gotras. Then the PRAVARAS are seen which is the generations
within the Rishi Gotra clan. That PRAVARA s gave vent to many more Gotras.
Then the SAKA and the SUTRAs.

II   Now therefore we shall explain the Pravaras.

      We shall here explain Baudhayana section in accordance with the views
of the commentary called the *Amala-bhāŞya*.

    (In the Śrauta Sūtra) the four types of *Śrauta sacrifice have been
explained*, viz. *iŞṭi, soma*, animal, and *darvīhoma* sacrifices,
beginning with the New- and Full-Moon Sacrifices and ending with the
Sattras; and the choosing of the *ārŞeya* has been prescribed as a part of
these rites. Thus, in the *Taittirīyas*, in the New- and Full-Moon
Sacrifices: ‘He chooses the one connected with the *ṛŞis (ārŞeyam)*;’ he
does not indeed depart from the relationship (with the ṛŞis), and so it
conduces to continuity. He chooses from the remote end the nearer
ones; therefore,
the Fathers, from the remote end the nearer ones, drink in order before
men.’ So, too, the Brāhmana-passage of the Vājasaneyins which prescribes
the ‘choosing of the *ṛŞi*-formula’ (*ārseyavaranam*) in the New- and
Full-Moon Sacrifices:

     ‘Next he recites the pravara of *ṛŞi* -names; he thus makes him known
in this matter to the *ṛŞis* and to the gods, with the thought, “Of great
power is he who obtained the sacrifice”. It is for this reason that he
recites the pravara of *ṛŞi*-names. He recites the pravara from the remote
end hitherwards, for from the remote end hitherwards *a lineage is
propagated.* He thus also conceals him from (the wrath of) the Lord of the
Elder One. For here (among men) the father comes first, then the son, then
the grandson. Therefore, he recites the pravara from the remote end
hitherwards.’ So, too, one may quote elsewhere, *Śākhā* by *Śākhā*. Thus
certain subordinate sacrificial directions are given in the matter of
gotras, as:

   ‘In the case of VasiŞṭhas and Rajanyas the concluding verse (of the
Samidhenīs) is  “Thou, O Varuna”, but “Pour ye the oblation” in the case of
the other gotras.’ is “Thou, O Varuna”, but “Pour ye the oblation” in the
case of the other gotras.’ Thus Pravaras are from 2 to 19 withing the
marked lists of each Gotra Rishi as shown below as extracted:


[image: image.png]
[image: image.png]
[image: image.png]
[image: image.png]
[image: image.png]

CHAPTER 7

Baudhāyana    WE shall explain the one-ra ‘Vasisthas’:

Vaikalir       Vārātakih      Sākhalā      Gaurisravasa       Asvalāyanāh

Kapisthalāh   Saucivrksā   Vyāghrapādo  Vāhyakāyanir   Vātavyā

[gāyani            nayāptā]     ātukarnyā     Audulomih     Kaubhojih

Kaulāyanāh     Sundaraharitāh    Kāntheviddhih   Saumanasāyanā

Alambhāyanā     Laumāyanyā       Svastyā    ārsitāhPārnakāyanās
Caudakāyanāh   Pārnavalko          Devanā

[image: image.png]


II A        Ksatriyas have a three-ra (pravara), ‘Manava, Aida,
Paururavasa’ for the Hotr, ‘like Pururavas,

 Ida, Manu’, for the Adhvaryu.

IIB      Vaisyas have a three-ra pravara,

‘Bhalandana, Vatsapra, Mankila’ for the Hotr,‘like Mankila,

 Vatsapri, Bhalandana’ for the Adhvaryu.

II  C    Apastamba

Next, of Kshatriyas.

If they recite their own, they have the one pravara, ‘Manava, Aida,
Paururavasa’, etc.

Those who do not have hymn-composers should make the recitation with their
purohit’s pravara; those who have hymn composers should do without their
purohit’s pravara. (But the correct view is that these also) should use
their purohit’s pravara, because of the logical argument. Vaisyas have a
one-ra pravara,‘Vatsapra’ for the Hotr,‘like Vatsapri’ for the Adhvaryu.

II D    Kdtydyana and Laugdksi

[Kings have their purohit’s pravara; with this too the pravara of Vaisyas
is explained. If he should recite with ra-names he should say: ‘Manava,
Aila, Paururavasa.’]

II  E   Asvaldyana

Kings have their purohit’s pravara; if they should make the pravarare
citation with rsis, ‘Manava, Aila, Paururavasa’.

II F   Purusottama comments:

‘With rsis’ (sdrsam) means ‘with .ra-names’ (sahdrseyam). (Here follows
Purusottama's comment on the Apastamba rule):

Here, there are two kinds of Ksatriyas: some have hymn-composers, and some
do not. Those who have should recite their own (pravara), those who do not,
the pravara of their purohita; having laid down these two prima facie
views, he gives as the correct view (*siddhanta*) that all Ksatriyas should
recite only the pravara of their purohitas—‘because of the logical argument’.
Now what logical argument is meant? First, all Kshatriyas have purohit, and
without them they have no admittance to sacrificial rites, as is seen from
the etymology of purohita, ‘being placed in front of him, he leads him in
all matters’ and on the view that all Kshatriyas should recite their own
pravara, the result would be that there could be no intermarriage among
them, since they would all have the same pravara. Now a man whose family
connections are not known should proclaim himself the descendant of his
teacher, and he recites his teacher's pravara.’

IIG        Here, ‘family connections’ means gotra or pravara: the man who
does not know this accurately is ‘one whose family connections are not
known’, e.g. Satyakama, etc. Thus, Satyakama Jabala, having requested the
teacher Gautama for admission as a pupil, and having been received into
Gautama's protection, was asked by the latter: ‘Of what gotra are you,
friend?’ And he replied: ‘Sir, I do not know what gotra I belong to.’ A
man, therefore, who in this fashion is ignorant of his family connections
should proclaim himself the descendant of his teacher, i.e. he should
proclaim his teacher's gotra, or his pravara, in due order. ‘He recites his
teacher's pravara’—this means the same thing.

But it is objected: ‘Is this not prohibited by scriptural passages such as
“if a man recites the *drseya* of another, that *rsi* takes the sacrifice
and the enjoyment”?’

No: since the sonship of a pupil is best, surpassing even a son of one's
own body. As Apastamba says: ‘Thus the teacher piles up precepts of virtue
for him, he never harms him; for from knowledge, he begets him. That is the
best birth; father and mother beget merely the body.’ And Baudhayana says:
‘Those whom he begets, those whom he initiates, those whom he teaches,
those for whom he sacrifices–all those become his sons.’ And since this is
so, pupils do not marry within the gotras of their teachers, because of
having the same gotra and pravara.

      KR      THUS THE DNA NATURE IN GOTRAS OF MANY ARE LOST.  Then Gotra
is exactly can be interpreted as not a Genetic also.

(TO BE CONTD PART 1  1524  K RAJARAM IRS )

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