In that case your IRS is bogus.Shame with you, the lier,uncultured idiot,Rajaram
Yahoo Mail: Search, organise, conquer
On Thu, 9 May 2024 at 21:47, Rajaram Krishnamurthy<keyarinc...@gmail.com>
wrote: yes supervisor KR
On Thu, 9 May 2024 at 10:17, gopala krishnan <gopa4...@yahoo.in> wrote:
Mr Rajaram,
Are you not having manners? When the entire group know I am ITS class 1, how
dare you are to write about me as a supervisor?
Are you really an IRS? No IRS will write like this. I have to call you in that
case Bogus IRS.
You are totally upset. Meet a good doctor in USA.
R Gopalakrishnan former ITS 7024
On Thursday, 9 May, 2024 at 07:21:28 pm IST, Rajaram Krishnamurthy
<keyarinc...@gmail.com> wrote:
True how pretenders will accept they understand; Goebbels do not; as evident
from 1000nds of Q and A and other emails apart from hidden office blows and
Vaishnava forum blows etc. Mug cannot and that also shows your English
knowledge is so poor. Thank u da KR Have you understood monkey back as red
etc? Pl read . Decent language of the canteen muttal; one is a liar; another
canteenwalla calling himself as coconut kernel; and the third as ITS but a
supervisor retd. All bahu decent people KR
On Thu, 9 May 2024 at 08:40, gopala krishnan <gopa4...@yahoo.in> wrote:
Mr Rajaram,
Please write your response in clear English. I am not able to make out what you
mean from your mailGopalakrishnan
On Thursday, 9 May, 2024 at 06:35:12 pm IST, Rajaram Krishnamurthy
<keyarinc...@gmail.com> wrote:
There are 3 idiots in the forum scratching each other's backs; one above is
asking why you are calling so and so as such and such when he had written a
decent email? only because he wrote a decent email, I also addressed him with
respect decently; if you feel that it shall come to you pl have that decency
upon you sir so you may become an idiot a decent term as equal to yours and
his. OK no regrets? KR
---------- Forwarded message ---------
From: gopala krishnan <gopa4...@yahoo.in>
Date: Thu, 9 May 2024 at 07:55
Subject: Re: [iyer123] Re: [KeralaIyers] SANATANA DHARMA PART 18 KR IRS LDN
KANCHI K RAJARAM IRS
To: keralaiy...@googlegroups.com <keralaiy...@googlegroups.com>, Patty Thatha
<thatha_patty@googlegroups.com>, Iyer <iyer...@googlegroups.com>, Narayanaswamy
Iyer <iyern...@gmail.com>, Rajaram Krishnamurthy <keyarinc...@gmail.com>, APS
Mani <m...@manijpn.in>, Laxminarayan Sarma <laxminarayan.sa...@gmail.com>
Mr Rajaram,
Why do you call a retired kernel Mr Sharma an idiot? If he has used any
abusing word in his mail, you could have pointed it.You are going far below of
a cultured member.Gopalakrishnan
On Thursday, 9 May, 2024 at 05:49:08 pm IST, Rajaram Krishnamurthy
<keyarinc...@gmail.com> wrote:
Ignored the idiot KR
On Wed, 8 May 2024 at 23:48, Laxminarayan Sarma <laxminarayan.sa...@gmail.com>
wrote:
Hey IaRSe
Nobody questioned or doubted or laid a claim that xy or z is greater than
Mahaperiyaval. You bird brained rotten ego misinterprets anything and
evrything. That's your problem.
But it goes to prove one thing. And that is the deficiency in your
underdeveloped and, also, perverted intellect. And your non-existent
comprehension abilities. Add to this your zero linguistic abilities
It was in this context that i suggested you sit at the feet of Brahmashri
Narayanaswmy Anna and get your basics rught
And , by the way, I accepted you as my manasika guru in the domain of Tamil
profanities and you will be glad that i excel you, my guru in this.
Aren't you glad that the sushya has excelked his guru, Shri Rajaram, IRS 999
On Thu, 9 May, 2024, 8:07 am Rajaram Krishnamurthy, <keyarinc...@gmail.com>
wrote:
Thank GOD; there is a mahan greater than Maha periyava and accusing and
rebutting HIM, but turning the table over others. The REV to one ignoramus and
one anna sarama , I dont know how many more worship him as greater than Maha
Periyava. Truth is written; as a matter of fact certain scriptures hold more
which will be presented at the appropriate time. Veda includes all Mere neti
without any content and quoting wrongly chandogya upanishad will not make a
fool a king Thank you KR IRS 9524
On Wed, 8 May 2024 at 21:11, Narayanaswamy Iyer <iyern...@gmail.com> wrote:
Dear folks
An absolute abysmal ignoramus preaching undiluted ignorance to the uninitiated.
Examples:-
(1) "The rites meant for the deities must be performed with devotion and those
meant for the pitrs or fathers must be performed with faith. What is done with
devotion is yajna and what is done with faith is sraddha."
My comments:- Both devotion and shraddha are needed for deva-yajnya and for
pithru-yajnya.
(2) "Vyasa goes on to state in his Brahmasutra that animal sacrifice is not
sinful since the act is permeated by the sound of the Vedas."
My comments:- Are the milliards of cattle and other animals killed for food in
Jewish, Christian, Muslim and other flesh-eating communities done so while
reciting vedams?
(3) "To do "pradakshina" means to go facing the south. (In majority of temples
the raja-gopuram-the main entrance tower -is in the east. When you enter it and
start circumbulating you will be facing the south.)"
My comments:- No. You don't.
When you enter a temple, you face the deity, i.e. WEST. Then you begin
circumambulating the garbha-graham where the deity is installed..
(4) "In the concluding passage of the Chandogya Upanishad whwre ahimsa or
non-violence is extolled you find these words, "Anyatra tirthebhyah". It means
ahimsa must be practised except with regard to Vedic rites."
My comments:-
What the cchaandogya upanishad Cap VIII v 15 says, inter alia, is: "sansarva
bhoothaanya anyathra theerthebhyaha".
Meaning, according to the context, the student, after learning the Vedas from
his teacher, returns home and takes up the duties of a householder.
Withdrawing all his organs into Self, not injuring any creature, other than
what is prescribed in the scriptures, he attains the world of Brahma.
The notorious pervert K RAJARAM ex-IRS 8524 alias Karuppan-chaami twists this
to mean, according to his own delusion, that ahimsa, including cruelty to all
living beings, animal-slaughter, and consumption of meat, is permitted under
the pretext of Vedic rites.
S Narayanaswamy Iyer
On Thu, May 9, 2024 at 12:46 AM Rajaram Krishnamurthy <keyarinc...@gmail.com>
wrote:
SANATANA DHARMA 18TH PART K RAJARAM IRS 8524 //9524
The rites meant for the deities must be performed withdevotion and those meant
for the pitrs or fathers must be performed with faith.What is done with
devotion is yajna and what is done with faith is sraddha.While performing the
former, the sikha must be gathered into a knot and thesacred thread must rest
on the left shoulder, and while performing the latterthe sikha must be worn
loose and the sacred thread must rest on the rightshoulder.
The sikha and the sacred thread are meant for these twopurposes. Sannyasins do
not have either. When they renounce the world they alsorenounce the rites for
the fathers and cease to worship a number of deities.They adore the Paramatman
directly without any worldly desire in their hearts.The followers of other
religions too wear neither a sikha nor a sacred threadand they worship the
Supreme God directly [that is without going through thestages in which the
various deities are worshipped].
Let me tell you about the two positions of the sacredthread while performing
the rites for the celestials and the fathers. We mustface the east as we
conduct various rituals. The north is the direction inwhich we make the passage
to the celestials. This path is called""uttarayana". Our departed fathers
reside in the south. Thesaint-poet Tiruvalluvar calls them "tenpulattar", those
dwelling inthe south. "Dakshinayana" is the way to the world of the
fathers.Bhagavan Krsna speaks of the two paths in the Gita.
When we sit facing the east to perform rites for the pitrs,which shoulder is to
the south? The right one. So the sacred thread must reston it.
To do "pradakshina" means to go facing the south.(In majority of temples the
raja-gopuram-the main entrance tower -is in theeast. When you enter it and
start circumbulating you will be facing the south.)
When we sit facing the east to perform rites for the godsour left shoulder is
to the north. So the sacred thread must rest on it. Whenwe are not engaged in
either of these two rites- that is when we are doing ouroffice work or
something else- the sacred thread must not rest on eithershoulder and must be
worn like a garland. (No one seems to observe this rule inpractice now. Except
during the rites for the fathers, most people have theirsacred thread resting
on their left shoulder. )
Why is it that religion alone has the rites called yajnasor sacrifices?
If a crop grows in surplus in our place we trade it withwhat is available in
plenty in another and is not produced in our own. Thecarpenter, the blacksmith
and other artisans make useful articles and serve usin many ways. In return we
give them what they need for their upkeep. We feedthe cow grass and it yields
us milk. We pay the government taxes and it givesus protection. The affairs of
the world are conducted on the basis of a systemof exchange. Similarly, we
conduct an exchange even with worlds other than ourown. Engineers and other
experts can canalise water obtained from the rains butthey cannot produce the
rains. If we want the rains to come, we have todespatch certain goods to the
abode of the celestials. It is this kind ofexchange that the Gita speaks of:
Devan bhavayatanena te deva bhavayantu vah
Parasparam bhavayantah sreyah param avapsyatha
It means: " You keep the devas satisfied with theperformance of sacrifices. And
let them look after your welfare by producingrain on earth. Thus, helping each
other, be more and more prosperous and happy."
|
Is Sacrificial Killing Justified?
MAY BE REAAD BY YMji also:
|
A yaga or sacrifice takes shape with the chanting of themantras, the invoking
of the deity and the offering of havis (oblation). Themantras are chanted
(orally) and the deity is meditated upon (mentally). Themost important material
required for homa is the havis offered in thesacrificial fire-- in this "work"
the body is involved. So,altogether, in a sacrificial offering mind, speech and
body (mano-vak-kaya) arebrought together.
Ghee (clarified butter) is an important ingredient of theoblation. While ghee
by itself is offered as an oblation, it is also used topurify other sacrificial
materials - in fact this is obligatory. In a number ofsacrifices the vapa(fat
or marrow) of animals is offered.
Is the performance of a sacrifice sinful, or is itmeritorius? Or is it both?
Madvacharya was against the killing of any pasu for asacrifice. In his
compassion he said that a substitute for the vapa must bemade with flour and
offered in the fire. ("Pasu" does not necessarilymean a cow. In Sanskrit any
animal is called a "pasu". )
In his Brahmasutra, Vyasa has expounded the nature of theAtman as found
expressed in the Upanishads which constitute the jnanakanda ofthe Vedas. The
actual conduct of sacrifices is dealt with in the Purvamimamsawhich is the
karmakanda ofthe Vedas. The true purpose of sacrifices is explained in the
Uttaramimamsa,that is the jnanakanda. What is this purposse or goal? It is the
cleansing ofthe consciousness and such cleansing is essential to lead a man to
the path ofjnana.
The Brahmasutra says: "Asuddhamiti cen na sabdat". Theperformance of sacrifices
is based on scriptural authority and it is part ofthe quest for Self
realisation. So how can it be called an impure act? How dowe determine whether
or not an object or an act is impure or whether it is goodor bad? We do so by
judging it according to the authority of of the sastras.Vyasa goes on to state
in his Brahmasutra that animal sacrifice is not sinfulsince the act is
permeated by the sound of the Vedas. What is pure or impure isto be known by
the authority provided by the Vedas or rather their sound calledSabdapramana.
If sacrifices were impure acts according to the Vedas, they wouldnot have
accepted them as part of the Atmic quest. Even if the sacrificialanimal is made
of flour (the substitute according to Madhvacharya) it is imbuedwith life by
the chanting of the Vedic mantras. Would it not then be like aliving animal and
would not offering it in a sacrifice be taken as an act ofviolence?
Tiruvalluvar says in his Tirukkural that not to kill ananimal and eat it is
better than performing a thousand sacrifices in which theoblation is consigned
to the fire. You should not take this to mean that thepoet speaks ill of
sacrifices.
What is in accordance or in pursuance of dharma must bepractised howsoever or
whatsoever it be. Here questions of violence must bedisregarded. The Tirukkural
says that it is better not to kill an animal thanperform a thousand sacrifices.
From this statement it is made out thatTiruvalluvar condemns sacrifices.
According to Manu himself conducting oneasvamedha (horse sacrifice) is superior
to performing a thousand othersacrifices. At the same time, he declares that
higher than a thousand horsesacrifices is the fact of one truth. If we say that
one thing is better thananother, the implication is that both are good. If the
performance of asacrifice were sinful, would it be claimed that one meritorious
act is superiorto a thousand sinful deeds? You may state that fasting on one
Sivaratri issuperior to fasting on a hundred Ekadasis. But would you say that
the same isbetter than running a hundred butcheries? When you remark that "this
riteis better than that rite or another", it means that the comparison isamong
two or more meritorious observances.
In the concluding passage of the Chandogya Upanishad whwre ahimsa
ornon-violence is extolled you find these words, "Anyatra tirthebhyah".It means
ahimsa must be practised except with regard to Vedic rites.
Considerations of violence have no place in sacrifices andthe conduct of war.
If the ideal of non-violence were superior to theperformance of sacrifices, it
would mean that "sacrifices are good butnon-violence is better". The
performance of a thousand sacrifices must bespoken of highly but the practice
of non-violence is to be regarded as evenhigher: It is in this sense that the
Kural stanza concerning sacrifices is tobe interpreted. We must not also forget
that it occurs in the section onrenunciation. What the poet want to convey is
that a sanyasin does better byabstaining from killing than a householder does
by conducting a thousandsacrifices. According to the sastras also a sanyasin
has no right to performsacrifices.
There are several types of sacrifices. I shall speak aboutthem later when I
deal with "Kalpa" (an Anga or limb of the Vedas)aaand "Grihasthasrama"(the
stage of the householder). What I wish to state here is that animals arenot
killed in all sacrifices. There are a number of yagnas in which only ghee(ajya)
is offered in the fire. In some, havisyanna (rice mixed with ghee) isoffered
and in some the cooked grains called "caru" or"purodasa", a kind of baked cake.
In agnihotri milk is poured into the fire;in aupasana unbroken rice grains
(aksata) areused; and in samidadhana the sticks of the palasa (flame of the
forest). Insacrifices in which the vapa of animals is offered, only a tiny bit
of theremains of the burnt offering is partaken of - and of course in the form
ofprasada.
One is enjoined to perform twenty-one sacrifices. These areof three
types:pakayajna, haviryajna and somayajna. In each category there are
sevensubdivisions. In all the seven pakayajnas as well as in the first
fivehaviryajnas there is no animal sacrifice. It is only from the sixth
haviryajnaonwards (it is called "nirudhapasubandha") that animals aresacrificed.
"Brahmins sacrificed herds and herds of animals andgorged themselves on their
meat. The Buddha saved such herds when they werebeing taken to the sacrificial
altar, " we often read such accounts inbooks. To tell the truth, there is no
sacrifice in which a large number ofanimals are killed. For vajapeya which is
the highest type of yajnaperformed by Brahmins, only twenty-three animals are
mentioned. For asvamedha(horse sacrifice), the biggest of the sacrifices
conducted by imperial rulers,one hundred animals are mentioned.
It is totally false to state that Brahmins performedsacrifices only to satisfy
their appetite for meat and that the talk ofpleasing the deities was only a
pretext. There are rules regarding the meat tobe carved out from a sacrificial
animal, the part of the body from which it isto be taken and the quantity each
rtvik can partake of as prasada(idavatarana). This is not more than the size of
a pigeon-pea and it is to beswallowed without anything added to taste. There
may be various reasons for youto attack the system of sacrifices but it would
be preposterous to do so on thescore that Brahmins practised deception by
making them a pretext to eat meat.
Nowadays a large number of animals are slaughtered in thelaboratories as
guinea-pigs. Animal sacrifices must be regarded as a littlehurt caused in the
cause of a great ideal, the welfare of mankind. As a matterof fact there is no
hurt caused since the animal sacrificed attains to anelevated state.
There is another falsehood spread these days, that Brahminsperformed the
somayajnas only as a pretext to drink somarasa (the essence ofthe soma plant).
Those who propagate this lie add that drinking somarasa isakin to imbibing
liquor or wine. As a matter of fact somarasa is not anintoxicating drink. There
is a reference in the Vedas to Indra killing his foewhen he was "intoxicated"
with somarasa. People who spread the abovefalsehoods have recourse to "
arthavada" and base their perverse views onthis passage.
The principle on which the physiology of deities is basedis superior to that of
humans. That apart, to say that the priests drank bottleafter bottle of
somarasa or pot after pot is to betray gross ignorance of theVedic dharma. The
soma plant is pounded and crushed in a small mortar called"graha". There are
rules with regard to the quantity of essence to beoffered to the gods. The
small portion that remains after the oblation has beenmade, "huta-sesa", which
is drunk drop by drop, does not add up to morethan an ounce. No one has been
knocked out by such drinking. They say thatsomarasa is not very palatable. .
The preposterous suggestion is made that somarasa was thecoffee of those times.
There are Vedic mantras which speak about the joyaroused by drinking it. This
has been misinterpreted. While coffee is injuriousto the mind, somarasa
cleanses it. It is absurd to equate the two. The somaplant was available in
plenty in ancient times. Now it is becoming more andmore scarce: this indeed is
in keeping with the decline of Vedic dharma. Inrecent years, the Raja of
Kollengode made it a point to supply the soma plant forthe soma sacrifice
wherever it was held.
|
Animal Sacrifice in the Age of Kali
|
An argument runs thus: In the eons gone by mankindpossessed high ideals and
noble character. Men could sacrifice animals for thewell-being of the world
because they had great affection in their hearts andwere selfless. They offered
even cows and horses in sacrifice and had meat forsraddha. As householders, in
their middle years, they followed the karmamarga(the path of works) and
performed rites to please the deities for the good ofthe world. But, in doing
so, they desired no rewards. Later, they renounced allworks, all puja, all
observances, to become sannyasins delighting themselves intheir Atman. They
were men of such refinement and noble character that, iftheir brother, a king,
died heirless they begot a son by his wife without anypassion in their hearts
and without a bit detracting from their brahmacharya.Their only motive was that
the kingdom should not be plunged in anarchy forwant of an heir to the throne.
In our own Kali age we do not have such men who aredesireless in their actions,
who can subdue their minds and give up all worksto become ascetics and who will
remain chaste at heart even in the company ofwomen. So it is contended that the
following are to be eschewed in the Kaliage: horse and cow sacrifices, meat in
the sraddha ceremony, sannyasa,begetting a son by the husband's brother. As
authority we have the followingverse:
Asvalambham gavalambham sanyasam palapatrikam
Devarena sutotpattim kalau panca vivarjayet
According to one view "asvalambham" in this verseshould be substituted with
"agniyadhanam".If you accept this version it would mean that even those
sacrifices in whichanimals are not killed should not be performed. In other
words it would mean atotal prohibition of all sacrifices. The very first in the
haviryajna categoryis agniyadhana. If that were to be prohibited it would mean
that, apart fromsmall sacrifices called "pakayajnas", no yajna can be performed.
According to great men such a view is wrong. SankaraBhagavatpada, whose mission
in life was the re-establishment of Vedic dharma,did not stop with the
admonishment that Vedas must be chanted every day("Vedo nityam adhiyatam"). He
insisted that rites imposed on us bythe Vedas must be performed: " "Taduditam
karma svanusthiyatam." Of Vedic rites, sacrifices occupy the foremost place. If
they are to beeschewed what other Vedic rites are we to perform? It may be that
certain typesof sacrifices need not be gone through in the age of Kali.
If, according to the verse, agniyadhana is interdicted, andno big sacrifice is
to be performed in the age of Kali, why should gavalambha(cow sacrifice) have
been mentioned in the prohibited category? If agniyadhanais not permissible, it
goes without saying that gavalambha also is prohibited.So, apart from certain
types, all sacrifices are to be performed at all times.
According to another verse quoted from the Dharmasastra, solong as the
varnasrama system is followed in the age of Kali, in however smalla measure,
and so long as the sound of the Vedas pervades the air, works likeagniyadhana
must be performed and the sannyasasrama followed, the stage of lifein which
there is no karma. The prohibition in Kali applies to certain types ofanimal
sacrifices, meat in sraddha ceremonies and begetting a son by thehusband's
brother.
|
Those who conduct Sacrifces
|
One who performs a yajna or sacrifice spending on thematerial and dakshina is
called a "yajamana". "Yaj" (as weseen already) means to worship. The root
meaning of "yajamana" is onewho performs a sacrifice. In Tamil Nadu nowadays we
refer to a "mudalali" as yajaman. It is the mudalali whopays the wages. So it
is that we have given him the same place as the yajamanawho pays dakshina in
sacrifices. That even common folks refer to the mudalalias yajaman shows how
deep-rooted the Vedic culture is in the Tamilland.
There is another word which also testifies to the fact thatTamil Nadu is
steeped in the Vedic tradition. A place where people are fed freeis called a
"cattiram" by Tamils. In the North the corresponding wordfor the sameis
"dharamsala"(dharmasala).
How would you explain the use of the word cattiram in theSouth? It is derived
from "sattram" which is the name of a type ofVedic sacrifice. In other
sacrifices there is only one yajamana who spends onthe material and the
dakshina. The priests recieve the dakshina from him andconduct the sacrifice on
his behalf. In a sattra all are yajamanas. As we havementioned earlier any
sacrifice brings benefits to all mankind and also servesto cleanse the mind of
all those who participate in it - even those who witnessthe rites are
benefitted. But the merit accrues chiefly to the yajamana.
The speciality of a sattra is that all the priestsconducting it are yajamanas.
It is a kind of socialist yajna in which the meritis equally shared. From this
type of sacrifice has originated the termsignifying a place or establishment
where anyone can come and eat as a matterof right. In a cattiram the one who
feeds does not consider himself superior tothe one who eats. There is reason to
believe that satras had a special place inthe tradition of Tamil Nadu.
Among the rtvik Brahmins there are three classes. The"hota"(hotr) chants the
rks, the hymns from the Rgveda in praise ofthe deity, invoking the devata to
accept the oblation. Because of the highplace accorded to him in a sacrifice we
hear even today the remark made withreference to anyone occupying a high
position, " hota".
The Rgveda is replete with hymns to various deities. TheYajurveda contains
mostly the methods and directions for the conduct ofsacrifices. The Brahmin who
looks after the conduct of the sacrifice is the"adhvaryu". The "udgata"(udgatr)
intones the mantras of theSamaveda to please the deities. There is a Brahmin
supervising the sacrificeand he is called the brahma.
The Vedas themselves are called "Brahma". That iswhy one who learns them (the
student) is called a "brahmacharin". Thesupervisor of the sacrifice, brahma,
performs his function in accordance withthe Atharvaveda. Thus the hota, the
adhvaryu, the udgata and the brahmarepresent the four Vedas in a sacrifice. In
later times, however, the opinionemerged that the brahma is not connected with
the Atharvaveda to the sameextent as the hota, adhvaryu and udgata are
connected respectively with the Rg,Yajur and Sama Vedas. In actual practice
also we see that those taking part insacrifices are conversant with the first
three Vedas only and not with theAtharvaveda. For this reason the view is put
forward that all sacrifices, fromthe somayaga to the asvamedha, are to be
performed only on the basis ofthe Rg, Yajur and Sama Vedas.
There are sacrifices which come independently under theAtharvaveda. Acording to
Valmiki's Ramayana, Indrajit performed the Nikhumbhilasacrifice mentioned in
this Veda. The other three Vedas have a far widerfollowing. Though we
customarily speak of the four Vedas (Caturveda), the Rg,Yajur and Saman are
bracketed together and specialy spoken of as"Trayi".
(There are three types of sacrifices mentioned in theAtharvaveda: "santikam"
for peace; "paustikam" forstrength; and " abhicharikam" to bring injury to
enemies).
K RAJARAM IRS 8524
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