gopala krishnan Respected sir,
In previous postings Mr Rajaram copy pasted messages from Kanchi sankaracharya. The same Kanchi sankaracharya only told, caste of a person depends on his parents. I have read from Kanchi matam letters. I am sure when I repeat here , Mr Rajaram will ask for proof!!! KR Undoubtedly; because, I am giving everything to test check; but you two alone pouring as if you are a Raja Rishi and a super hero whose dictum is veda. So write authentically; and you have to only copy and paste or else it will hang only in air without content xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Regarding Varna, I too read the explanation he copied from some source. It is the first time I reading Varna is derived from vara. I cannot compete with wide knowledge Mr Rajaram. KR If you do not know stop thee; do not jalra thinking he must be correct. Because when his nose bleeds you also become apaart. I had written elsewhere Read if you are honest and regret xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Further he has copied from some where,The word “caste” is derived from the Portuguese and Spanish word “casta”, meaning “race” or “breed”. It is synonymous to ‘jaati’." KR That is why Nidanam is required or else you will be exposed as…… xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx I could not control my laugh.!!! KR Now how would I laugh at L KG ? Xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx gopala krishnan Hello Mr Rajaram, Who appreciated you as super Hero? Can't you recollect even Mr Madras Sivaraman former I A S himself asked you recently , whether your posts are your own or copy paste ?You tucked your tail and replied only 50% is your own. I know only one note highlighted was yours. Are you not ashamed to say you are a super hero. KR When Duryodhanan went out he saw bad people only; but Dharma vision was different So you too!! Your knowledge is so poor. You only write from somewhere; and you also write: I know only one word is mine; contradicting yourself. But you cannot blow my content with your truth if at all? xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx There is a Tamil saying "Bommai, gopuram thankeetham". A small idol installed on the top of the tower thought it was supporting the tower. Your super hero is like that only. I wrote to you many times, all members in the group has good caliber, some very well above you like me. Gopalakrishnan KR Gopuram false etc does it matter from such a knowledgeable L K G? Never sir. All write to me about your spectacular write up. Good keep it up. The more exposed (a) vivekam is far better than these titbits you do!! KR IRS 21524 xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx On Mon, 20 May 2024 at 07:50, gopala krishnan <[email protected]> wrote: > Respected sir, > > In previous postings Mr Rajaram copy pasted messages from Kanchi > sankaracharya. The same Kanchi sankaracharya only told, caste of a > person *depends on his parents*.I have read from Kanchi matam letters. > > I am sure when I repeat here , *Mr Rajaram will ask for proof!!!* > > Regarding Varna, I too read the explanation he copied from some source. It > is the first time I reading Varna is derived from vara. I cannot compete > with wide knowledge Mr Rajaram. > > Further he has copied from some where,*The word “caste” is derived from > the Portuguese and Spanish word “casta”, meaning “race” or “breed”. It is > synonymous to ‘jaati’*." > > *I could not control my laugh.!!!* > > Gopalakrishnan > > > > > > On Monday, 20 May, 2024 at 03:44:00 pm IST, Narayanaswamy Iyer < > [email protected]> wrote: > > > > Dear folks > > Whenever the dead and buried hairless, toothless, witless, unlearned, > illiterate, unschooled, uneducated aachaa-paatti old hag Karuppan-paatti K > Rajaram ex-IRS 19524//20524 shrieks from her worm-crawling rotting > cadaver six feet below ground, it starts with a couple of giant lies. And > persists so to the very end. > > Displaying for public scrutiny her penchant for lying, and lying big, she > starts off in her usual drain-gutter-sewer ungrammatical broken English:- > > (1) "*Varana -- The word ‘varna’ is derived from the Sanskrit word > ‘vara’, meaning “choice”. It is always a person’s choice to choose their > varana*." > > > My comments:- > > > "Varana" has nothing to do with "varna". > > > The Sanskrit word "varanam" means, among other things, begging, > soliciting, requesting, covering, screening, protecting, a rampart, > surrounding wall, a ridge, a tree in general, a camel. > > > "Vara" means best, excellent, most beautiful or precious, better and > preferable, and so on. > > > The four varnas are fully set out in our vedams as braahmana, kshathriya, > vaishya, and shoodra, who each spring respectively from the various parts > of the body of the original virad-purusha. > > > It is NEVER a free choice for a new-born baby to choose his or her varna. > The baby follows the varna of its legitimately married parents. > > > (2) "*SkandaPurana -- **By birth one is a Shudra. Through rituals > (samskaara), one is considered a dvija. One who has read the Vedas has > become a Vipra and one who knows Brahman is a Brahmana.*" > > My comments:- > > A fallible mere human-originated puraanam has no authority to over-ride > our vedams. > > (3) "*A child aged around 11-12 years is supposed to go to a Guru and > undergo initiation after which he/she is a dvija (twice-born). This > procedure is called ‘Upanayana’ and following that one is said to be born > from the Guru and the Vedas and is a Brahmachaari."* > > My comments:- More lies, heaped on lies. > > A male child aged eight years born of braahmana parents is expected to > undergo initiation into Vedic manthrams *BY HIS FATHER* (assisted by a > braahmana priest if necessary) in the samskaaram called upanayanam. > > During this sacred rite the child is conferred the right to wear a > yagnopaveetham, to perform the maadhyaahnikam (involving momentary > surya-darishanam of the noonday Sun) and other sandhyaa-vandanams, and to > perform the fire-ceremony called samidhaa-daanam. > > On completion, he is entitled to be called brahmachaari. > > (4) "*After reading the four Vedas and following them, a student is a > Vipra, the preliminary rank before becoming a Brahmana, Kshatriya or > Vaishya."* > > My comments:- > > The upanayanam does not confer the right to study the atharva-vedam. That > requires a separate upanayanam involving occult and magical practices. > > Under the fulltime guidance of his guru (who may be the priest, father, > elder brother, uncle or other learned individual) the brahmachaari studies > the r'g, yajur and saama vedams. On completion, which might well take > eight to sixteen years, and giving his guru the guru-dakshina, he takes the > ceremonial graduation bath by triple immersion in the sea or flowing > river. > > He is then known as a vipra. He is free to perform the samskaaram of > vivaaham (marry a virgin of his varna), and start a family. > > (5) "*One would generally, having c**ompleted their education choose a > varana that suits them,"* > > My comments:- Absolute rubbish again. > > The varna is determined at birth, as per our vedams. There never was a > qjuestion of "choice". > > (6) "*Varana vs. Varna: The Difference* > > *The word ‘varana’, translates to “a choice-based position in society”. It > is derived from the word ‘Vara’ (choice), similar to Swayamvara, a ceremony > where a princess ‘chooses’ her husband.*" > > > My comments:- Again, absolute trash. I have set out above the > difference between the two words. > > > In the expression "svayam-vara", the word "vara" means "husband". > > > (7) "*The word “caste” is derived from the Portuguese and Spanish word > “casta”, meaning “race” or “breed”. It is synonymous to ‘jaati’*." > > > My comments:- Absolute nonsense, as usual. > > > The word "caste" is actually derived from the Latin word "casta", meaning > *CHASTE*, i.e. virgin, refraining from sexual activity and lewd > thoughts, improper association with members of the opposite gender, pure, > clean, vowed to chastity and purity. > > "Jaathi" actually is a Sanskrit-derived word denoting birth, such as > jaayathe, jananam, janma nakshathram, jaathagam, "padbyaagum shoodro > ajaayatha", "dvi-jaa" meaning twice-born. We still use the English > classical words "genitor" and "genitress" meaning "father" and "mother". > > > (8) "*Are there any examples from scriptures of people changing their > varanas or belonging to a different one than that of their parents? **There > are many examples of this from various scriptures. You will find several in > the Vishnu Purana*." > > > My comments:- As I said earlier, the puraanaas written by fallible > humans and not derived from divine sources, have no authority to over-ride > the vedams. > > > If our vedams say one varna came from the virad purusha's feet, they can > in no way say that they can climb upwards (like a new-born baby kangaroo > seeking its mother's nipples) and pretend to come from the purusha's > mouth. A crow cannot become a peacock by putting on the peacock's > feathers. > > > Moreover, the law of gravity works only in one way -- from up to down. > Not the reverse, whatever the non-vedams say. > > > *As for Raavana, he remained a braahmana, albeit a raakshasa. The two > identities are not mutually exclusive.* > > > *As for Vidoora, son of rapist illegitimate Vyaasa and royal widow > Ambaalika's servant-maid (whom Ambaalika sent as she did not wished to be > raped again) , he never was a braahmana (nor a vaishya nor a kshathriya), > but remained the same varna as his mother the shoodran sevant-maid of a > royal widow.* > > > *As for Vishvaamithra, he remained a raajarishi, belonging to the > kshathriya varna.* > > > Brahmarishi Vashishta refused to countenance Vishvamithra as having > > ascended to the varna of braahmanas. He merely commented, when > > approached by the latter's disciples, "If so, let it be," meaning, > > "*If you wish to so call him, let it be.*" > > > S Narayanaswamy Iyer > > On Mon, May 20, 2024 at 12:19 PM Rajaram Krishnamurthy < > [email protected]> wrote: > > Sure sir tomorrow i shall K R > > On Sun, May 19, 2024, 10:36 PM 'Bala N. Aiyer' via KeralaIyers < > [email protected]> wrote: > > Dear Sri Rajaraman Ji: > > The sloka you have quoted "Janmanaa..." from Skanda Purana, I was given to > understand that > it is seen in Manu Smriti - Manu Dharma Sasthra. Can you please confirm if > this is also true, > Since we discuss this sloka often. If this is seen in several places? > > Bala N. Aiyer > > > On Sunday, May 19, 2024 at 10:08:17 PM CDT, Rajaram Krishnamurthy < > [email protected]> wrote: > > > Varana > > The word ‘varna’ is derived from the Sanskrit word ‘vara’, meaning > “choice”. It is always a person’s choice to choose their varana. What is > the basis of this procedure? This is clearly explained in the following > shloka from the SkandaPurana: > > जन्मनाजायतेशूद्रःसंस्कारात्द्विजउच्यते। > वेदापठत्भवेत्विप्रःब्रह्मजानातीब्राह्मणः॥ > > Janmanaajaayateshudrahasamskaaratdvijauchyate। > Vedaapatatbhavetvipraha, Brahma jaanaatibraahmanaha॥ > > Janmaana– By birth; jaayate– born as; shudraha– the lowest > varana; samskaaraat – through rituals (Upanayana); dvija–twice-born (dve – > two;ja – born);uchyate –declared as; apatat – has read (the Veda); bhavet – > became; Vipra – the educated qualification; jaanaati – > knows;Braahmanaha–the topmost varana; > > “By birth one is a Shudra. Through rituals (samskaara), one is considered > a dvija. One who has read the Vedas has become a Vipra and one who knows > Brahman is a Brahmana.” > -SkandaPurana, Khanda (canto) 6 (NagaraKhanda), Chapter 239, Shlokas 31-34 > > This is the exact procedure a person used to follow in the ancient times – > to get educated and choose any of the varanas. This is also mentioned in > the Atharva Veda (Khanda 11, Sukta 5, Mantra 3). > > A child aged around 11-12 years is supposed to go to a Guru and undergo > initiation after which he/she is a dvija (twice-born). This procedure is > called ‘Upanayana’ and following that one is said to be born from the Guru > and the Vedas and is a Brahmachaari. This is the reason why they are > referred to as ‘dvija’, or “twice-born”. The first birth is the physical > one and the second is Upanayana. The student is then expected to practice > the principles of Brahmachaarya to maintain their elevated status and to > remain eligible to practice the Vedas (even after completing education and > becoming a member of the Tri-varanas). After reading the four Vedas and > following them, a student is a Vipra, the preliminary rank before becoming > a Brahmana, Kshatriya or Vaishya. In the scriptures, one would generally > complete education and choose a varana that suits them, at the age of 14-15 > years, after their education. > > In Srimad Bhagavatam (Canto 11, Chapter 17, Shlokas 10-13), it is > described, that in Satya Yuga (or Krta Yuga), there was only one varana > called ‘Hamsa’. Everyone was a devotee of the Supreme Lord from birth and > was born with wisdom. Hence, all were sincere and there was only dharma in > that age. > > A Brahmana is one who knows Brahman. Hence, all were considered equal to > Brahmanas in the Satya Yuga. Later, people who revolted became Kshatriyas, > those who were engaged in farming and trading-related activities became > Vaishyas and those who stopped learning and following the Vedas became > Shudras. The same cycle repeats in every Maha Yuga (one cycle of four > Yugas). > > Varana vs. Varna: The Difference > > The word ‘varana’, translates to “a choice-based position in society”. It > is derived from the word ‘Vara’ (choice), similar to Swayamvara, a ceremony > where a princess ‘chooses’ her husband. > > The word ‘Varna’, can be used as a short-form of the word ‘varana’, as > used in certain scriptures like the Bhagavata Purana. Otherwise, it means > “colour” and has nothing to do with a person’s social class. > > The Difference between Jaati and Varana > > Nowadays many consider jaati or caste, as a pre-requisite to attain a > certain varana or to study the Vedas. This is incorrect. The word “caste” > is derived from the Portuguese and Spanish word “casta”, meaning “race” or > “breed”. It is synonymous to ‘jaati’, but definitely not to varana. > > Jaati is one’s ethnicity or origin. It does not determine their Varana. > For example, in India, there are lawyers from various states. Is it logical > to claim that all lawyers should be only native -speakers and others should > not be allowed to pursue law? Definitely not! Similarly, the modern-day > caste system arose from selfishness, short-sightedness and lack of maturity > of the people belonging to the Tri-Varanas, who turned the Varana system > into caste system, centuries ago. > > Now let us try and dispel some of the most common misconceptions > regarding Varanashrama > > - Is dvija the birth after death, where a person’s varana changes in > their next birth? > > No. This is a prevalent myth regarding the varana system. All are born > Shudras, as mentioned in the shloka from the SkandaPurana. After learning > the Vedas under the tutelage of a Guru, one becomes a Vipra. Then, > depending on their mechanism of following dharma, they are considered to be > members of any of the three varanas, namely – Brahmana, Kshatriya and > Vaishya. Even if an educated person commits a sin, they are downgraded to > the level of a Shudra. (Manu Smriti, Chapter 2, Shlokas 103, 157 and 168; > Chapter 4, Shloka 245) > > - Why do certain shlokas say that one must be “born in the Veda” to > pronounce the Vedic texts? For example, Manu Smriti, Chapter 2, Shloka 172 > says this. > > Just read Manu Smriti, Chapter 2, Shloka 148. It says that “a person’s > true birth is by means of education which is considered imperishable.” As > mentioned above in this article, one must undergo Upanayana to become a > dvija. After that, the Vedas become one of their parents. This concept is > mentioned in Sage Apasthamba’ s Dharma Sutra and was also misinterpreted > by B. R. Ambedkar, in his book, “Who Are the Shudras?” > > - Are women also allowed to get educated and attain a certain varana > as per the Vedic rules? Why are women compared to Shudras by several > present-day scholars? > > Yes, women are also supposed to have equal opportunities as men. There is > no discrimination on the basis of sex, as per Hinduism and the Vedic rules. > There have been many female scholars like Gargi, Maitreyi, Lopamudra, > Gautami, etc. They also wore the sacred thread, yajnopavitam (यज्ञोपवीतम्), > just like educated men, and also were Brahmachaariṇis. Moreover, the Rg > Veda and Atharva Veda explicitly state that men and women are supposed to > practice Brahmachaarya. (Refer to Rg Veda, Mandala 6, Sukta 44, Mantra 18; > Mandala 10, Sukta 109, Mantra 5; Atharva Veda, Khanda 11, Sukta 5, Mantras > 17 and 18) > > The trend of comparing women to Shudras started after the onset of the > caste system, to prevent them from receiving education. This was all > actually European influence. It has now become a widespread misconception > regarding the varana system. > > - Are there any examples from scriptures of people changing their > varanas or belonging to a different one than that of their parents? > > Yes. It is said in the Manu Smriti (Chapter 10, Shloka 65) that “it is > always possible for a Brahmana to become a Shudra or vice versa. The same > is applicable to the Kshatriya and Vaishya”. There are many examples of > this from various scriptures. You will find several in the Vishnu Purana. A > few are given below: > > - Prishadha, the son of Prajapati Daksha, although born to a Brahmana, > became a Shudra. He performed tapasya and attained liberation. (Vishnu > Purana, Khanda4, Chapter 1, Shloka 14) > - Nabhaga, the son of a Kshatriya, became a Vaishya. Later, > his own sons became Kshatriyas. (Vishnu Purana, Khanda4, Chapter 1, > Shloka 13) > - Nabhaga’s son, Drishta, became a Brahmana. His son became a > Kshatriya. (Vishnu Purana, Khanda4, Chapter 2, Shloka 2) > - Drishta’s grandchildren became Brahmanas again. (Vishnu Purana, > Khanda9, Chapter 2, Shloka 23) > - Raavana was the grandson of the Rishi Pulatsya, yet he > became a rakshassha. > - Vidura was raised by his mother, a servant. He was educated and > became a Brahmana. > > Rishi Vishvamitra was formerly a Kshatriya who became a Brahmana, and > moreover, a Brahmarshi. > > Xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx K Rajaram IRS > 19524//20524 > > -- > On Facebook, please join https://www.facebook.com/groups/keralaiyerstrust > > We are now on Telegram Mobile App also, please join > > Pattars/Kerala Iyers Discussions: https://t.me/PattarsGroup > > Kerala Iyers Trust Decisions only posts : https://t.me/KeralaIyersTrust > > Kerala Iyers Trust Group for Discussions: > https://t.me/KeralaIyersTrustGroup > --- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "KeralaIyers" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to [email protected]. > To view this discussion on the web visit > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/keralaiyers/CAL5XZor0ErpvG8Hx9Yf%2B%3D45UZ_6OBkxqJ-zpAWez8roE3ez%3DCA%40mail.gmail.com > <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/keralaiyers/CAL5XZor0ErpvG8Hx9Yf%2B%3D45UZ_6OBkxqJ-zpAWez8roE3ez%3DCA%40mail.gmail.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> > . > > -- > On Facebook, please join https://www.facebook.com/groups/keralaiyerstrust > > We are now on Telegram Mobile App also, please join > > Pattars/Kerala Iyers Discussions: https://t.me/PattarsGroup > > Kerala Iyers Trust Decisions only posts : https://t.me/KeralaIyersTrust > > Kerala Iyers Trust Group for Discussions: > https://t.me/KeralaIyersTrustGroup > --- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "KeralaIyers" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to [email protected]. > To view this discussion on the web visit > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/keralaiyers/771910835.1548847.1716176168360%40mail.yahoo.com > <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/keralaiyers/771910835.1548847.1716176168360%40mail.yahoo.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> > . > > -- > On Facebook, please join https://www.facebook.com/groups/keralaiyerstrust > > We are now on Telegram Mobile App also, please join > > Pattars/Kerala Iyers Discussions: https://t.me/PattarsGroup > > Kerala Iyers Trust Decisions only posts : https://t.me/KeralaIyersTrust > > Kerala Iyers Trust Group for Discussions: > https://t.me/KeralaIyersTrustGroup > --- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "KeralaIyers" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to [email protected]. > To view this discussion on the web visit > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/keralaiyers/CAL5XZorLuv1GM8a9RrNU3pAmQ%3DE9Cw7jPw%2Bj6U8Qc0hU1%2B_bmA%40mail.gmail.com > <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/keralaiyers/CAL5XZorLuv1GM8a9RrNU3pAmQ%3DE9Cw7jPw%2Bj6U8Qc0hU1%2B_bmA%40mail.gmail.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> > . > > -- > On Facebook, please join https://www.facebook.com/groups/keralaiyerstrust > > We are now on Telegram Mobile App also, please join > > Pattars/Kerala Iyers Discussions: https://t.me/PattarsGroup > > Kerala Iyers Trust Decisions only posts : https://t.me/KeralaIyersTrust > > Kerala Iyers Trust Group for Discussions: > https://t.me/KeralaIyersTrustGroup > --- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "KeralaIyers" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to [email protected]. > To view this discussion on the web visit > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/keralaiyers/CAL4idhPk5OuxDmuyLKGkhWtP9NgnZX3ijFFbwMdYseC_6O7LiA%40mail.gmail.com > <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/keralaiyers/CAL4idhPk5OuxDmuyLKGkhWtP9NgnZX3ijFFbwMdYseC_6O7LiA%40mail.gmail.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> > . > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Thatha_Patty" group. 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