Mr Rajaram,
Have I wrote any thing in degrading manner? Why do you use degrading words?
This is your drawback. Afterwards you will write I started using degrading
words.Gopalakrishnan
On Tuesday, 21 May, 2024 at 07:28:05 am IST, Rajaram Krishnamurthy
<[email protected]> wrote:
gopala krishnan
Respected sir,
In previous postings Mr Rajaram copy pasted messages fromKanchi sankaracharya.
The same Kanchi sankaracharya only told, caste of aperson depends on his
parents. I have read from Kanchi matam letters.
I am sure when I repeat here , Mr Rajaram will ask forproof!!!
KR Undoubtedly; because, I am givingeverything to test check; but you two
alone pouring as if you are a Raja Rishiand a super hero whose dictum is veda.
So write authentically; and you have toonly copy and paste or else it will hang
only in air without content
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Regarding Varna, I too read the explanation he copied fromsome source. It is
the first time I reading Varna is derived from vara. Icannot compete with wide
knowledge Mr Rajaram.
KR If you do not know stop thee; do notjalra thinking he must be correct.
Because when his nose bleeds you also becomeapaart. I had written elsewhere
Read if you are honest and regret
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Further he has copied from some where,The word “caste” isderived from the
Portuguese and Spanish word “casta”, meaning “race” or“breed”. It is synonymous
to ‘jaati’."
KR That is why Nidanam is required or else youwill be exposed as……
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
I could not control my laugh.!!!
KR Now how would I laugh at L KG ?
Xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
gopala krishnan
Hello Mr Rajaram,
Who appreciated you as super Hero? Can't you recollecteven Mr Madras Sivaraman
former I A S himself asked you recently , whether your posts are your own or
copypaste ?You tucked your tail and repliedonly 50% is your own. I know only
one note highlighted was yours. Are you notashamed to say you are a super hero.
KR When Duryodhananwent out he saw bad people only; but Dharma vision was
different So you too!! Your knowledge is so poor. You only writefrom
somewhere; and you also write: I know only one word is mine;
contradictingyourself. But you cannot blow my content with your truth if at all?
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
There is a Tamil saying "Bommai, gopuramthankeetham".
A small idol installed on the top of the tower thought itwas supporting the
tower. Your superhero is like that only.
I wrote to you many times, all members in the group has good caliber, some very
well above you likeme.
Gopalakrishnan
KR Gopuram false etc does it matter fromsuch a knowledgeable L K G? Never
sir. All write to me about your spectacularwrite up. Good keep it up. The more
exposed (a) vivekam is far betterthan these titbits you do!! KR IRS 21524
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
On Mon, 20 May 2024 at 07:50, gopala krishnan <[email protected]> wrote:
Respected sir,
In previous postings Mr Rajaram copy pasted messages from Kanchi sankaracharya.
The same Kanchi sankaracharya only told, caste of a person depends on his
parents.I have read from Kanchi matam letters.
I am sure when I repeat here , Mr Rajaram will ask for proof!!!
Regarding Varna, I too read the explanation he copied from some source. It is
the first time I reading Varna is derived from vara. I cannot compete with wide
knowledge Mr Rajaram.
Further he has copied from some where,The word “caste” is derived from the
Portuguese and Spanish word “casta”, meaning “race” or “breed”. It is
synonymous to ‘jaati’."
I could not control my laugh.!!!
Gopalakrishnan
On Monday, 20 May, 2024 at 03:44:00 pm IST, Narayanaswamy Iyer
<[email protected]> wrote:
Dear folks
Whenever the dead and buried hairless, toothless, witless, unlearned,
illiterate, unschooled, uneducated aachaa-paatti old hag Karuppan-paatti K
Rajaram ex-IRS 19524//20524 shrieks from her worm-crawling rotting cadaver six
feet below ground, it starts with a couple of giant lies. And persists so to
the very end.
Displaying for public scrutiny her penchant for lying, and lying big, she
starts off in her usual drain-gutter-sewer ungrammatical broken English:-
(1) "Varana -- The word ‘varna’ is derived from the Sanskrit word ‘vara’,
meaning “choice”. It is always a person’s choice to choose their varana."
My comments:-
"Varana" has nothing to do with "varna".
The Sanskrit word "varanam" means, among other things, begging, soliciting,
requesting, covering, screening, protecting, a rampart, surrounding wall, a
ridge, a tree in general, a camel.
"Vara" means best, excellent, most beautiful or precious, better and
preferable, and so on.
The four varnas are fully set out in our vedams as braahmana, kshathriya,
vaishya, and shoodra, who each spring respectively from the various parts of
the body of the original virad-purusha.
It is NEVER a free choice for a new-born baby to choose his or her varna.
The baby follows the varna of its legitimately married parents.
(2) "SkandaPurana -- By birth one is a Shudra. Through rituals (samskaara),
one is considered a dvija. One who has read the Vedas has become a Vipra and
one who knows Brahman is a Brahmana."
My comments:-
A fallible mere human-originated puraanam has no authority to over-ride our
vedams.
(3) "A child aged around 11-12 years is supposed to go to a Guru and undergo
initiation after which he/she is a dvija (twice-born). This procedure is called
‘Upanayana’ and following that one is said to be born from the Guru and the
Vedas and is a Brahmachaari."
My comments:- More lies, heaped on lies.
A male child aged eight years born of braahmana parents is expected to undergo
initiation into Vedic manthrams BY HIS FATHER (assisted by a braahmana priest
if necessary) in the samskaaram called upanayanam.
During this sacred rite the child is conferred the right to wear a
yagnopaveetham, to perform the maadhyaahnikam (involving momentary
surya-darishanam of the noonday Sun) and other sandhyaa-vandanams, and to
perform the fire-ceremony called samidhaa-daanam.
On completion, he is entitled to be called brahmachaari.
(4) "After reading the four Vedas and following them, a student is a Vipra,
the preliminary rank before becoming a Brahmana, Kshatriya or Vaishya."
My comments:-
The upanayanam does not confer the right to study the atharva-vedam. That
requires a separate upanayanam involving occult and magical practices.
Under the fulltime guidance of his guru (who may be the priest, father, elder
brother, uncle or other learned individual) the brahmachaari studies the r'g,
yajur and saama vedams. On completion, which might well take eight to sixteen
years, and giving his guru the guru-dakshina, he takes the ceremonial
graduation bath by triple immersion in the sea or flowing river.
He is then known as a vipra. He is free to perform the samskaaram of vivaaham
(marry a virgin of his varna), and start a family.
(5) "One would generally, having completed their education choose a varana
that suits them,"
My comments:- Absolute rubbish again.
The varna is determined at birth, as per our vedams. There never was a
qjuestion of "choice".
(6) "Varana vs. Varna: The Difference
The word ‘varana’, translates to “a choice-based position in society”. It is
derived from the word ‘Vara’ (choice), similar to Swayamvara, a ceremony where
a princess ‘chooses’ her husband."
My comments:- Again, absolute trash. I have set out above the difference
between the two words.
In the expression "svayam-vara", the word "vara" means "husband".
(7) "The word “caste” is derived from the Portuguese and Spanish word “casta”,
meaning “race” or “breed”. It is synonymous to ‘jaati’."
My comments:- Absolute nonsense, as usual.
The word "caste" is actually derived from the Latin word "casta", meaning
CHASTE, i.e. virgin, refraining from sexual activity and lewd thoughts,
improper association with members of the opposite gender, pure, clean, vowed to
chastity and purity.
"Jaathi" actually is a Sanskrit-derived word denoting birth, such as jaayathe,
jananam, janma nakshathram, jaathagam, "padbyaagum shoodro ajaayatha",
"dvi-jaa" meaning twice-born. We still use the English classical words
"genitor" and "genitress" meaning "father" and "mother".
(8) "Are there any examples from scriptures of people changing their varanas
or belonging to a different one than that of their parents? There are many
examples of this from various scriptures. You will find several in the Vishnu
Purana."
My comments:- As I said earlier, the puraanaas written by fallible humans and
not derived from divine sources, have no authority to over-ride the vedams.
If our vedams say one varna came from the virad purusha's feet, they can in no
way say that they can climb upwards (like a new-born baby kangaroo seeking its
mother's nipples) and pretend to come from the purusha's mouth. A crow cannot
become a peacock by putting on the peacock's feathers.
Moreover, the law of gravity works only in one way -- from up to down. Not
the reverse, whatever the non-vedams say.
As for Raavana, he remained a braahmana, albeit a raakshasa. The two
identities are not mutually exclusive.
As for Vidoora, son of rapist illegitimate Vyaasa and royal widow Ambaalika's
servant-maid (whom Ambaalika sent as she did not wished to be raped again) , he
never was a braahmana (nor a vaishya nor a kshathriya), but remained the same
varna as his mother the shoodran sevant-maid of a royal widow.
As for Vishvaamithra, he remained a raajarishi, belonging to the kshathriya
varna.
Brahmarishi Vashishta refused to countenance Vishvamithra as having
ascended to the varna of braahmanas. He merely commented, when
approached by the latter's disciples, "If so, let it be," meaning,
"If you wish to so call him, let it be."
S Narayanaswamy Iyer
On Mon, May 20, 2024 at 12:19 PM Rajaram Krishnamurthy <[email protected]>
wrote:
Sure sir tomorrow i shall K R
On Sun, May 19, 2024, 10:36 PM 'Bala N. Aiyer' via KeralaIyers
<[email protected]> wrote:
Dear Sri Rajaraman Ji:
The sloka you have quoted "Janmanaa..." from Skanda Purana, I was given to
understand that it is seen in Manu Smriti - Manu Dharma Sasthra. Can you please
confirm if this is also true, Since we discuss this sloka often. If this is
seen in several places?
Bala N. Aiyer
On Sunday, May 19, 2024 at 10:08:17 PM CDT, Rajaram Krishnamurthy
<[email protected]> wrote:
Varana
The word ‘varna’ is derived from the Sanskrit word ‘vara’, meaning“choice”. It
is always a person’s choice to choose their varana. What is thebasis of this
procedure? This is clearly explained in the following shloka fromthe
SkandaPurana:
जन्मनाजायतेशूद्रःसंस्कारात्द्विजउच्यते।
वेदापठत्भवेत्विप्रःब्रह्मजानातीब्राह्मणः॥
Janmanaajaayateshudrahasamskaaratdvijauchyate।
Vedaapatatbhavetvipraha, Brahma jaanaatibraahmanaha॥
Janmaana– By birth; jaayate– born as; shudraha– the lowestvarana; samskaaraat –
through rituals(Upanayana); dvija–twice-born (dve – two;ja –born);uchyate
–declared as; apatat – has read (the Veda); bhavet –became; Vipra – the
educated qualification; jaanaati –knows;Braahmanaha–the topmost varana;
“By birth one is a Shudra. Through rituals (samskaara), one isconsidered a
dvija. One who has read the Vedas has become a Vipra and one whoknows Brahman
is a Brahmana.”
-SkandaPurana, Khanda (canto) 6 (NagaraKhanda), Chapter 239, Shlokas 31-34
This is the exact procedure a person used to follow in the ancienttimes – to
get educated and choose any of the varanas. This is also mentionedin the
Atharva Veda (Khanda 11, Sukta 5, Mantra 3).
A child aged around 11-12 years is supposed to go to a Guru and
undergoinitiation after which he/she is a dvija (twice-born). This procedure is
called‘Upanayana’ and following that one is said to be born from the Guru and
theVedas and is a Brahmachaari. This is the reason why they are referred to
as‘dvija’, or “twice-born”. The first birth is the physical one and the second
isUpanayana. The student is then expected to practice the principles
ofBrahmachaarya to maintain their elevated status and to remain eligible
topractice the Vedas (even after completing education and becoming a member
ofthe Tri-varanas). After reading the four Vedas and following them, a student
isa Vipra, the preliminary rank before becoming a Brahmana, Kshatriya or
Vaishya.In the scriptures, one would generally complete education and choose a
varanathat suits them, at the age of 14-15 years, after their education.
In Srimad Bhagavatam (Canto 11, Chapter 17, Shlokas 10-13), it isdescribed,
that in Satya Yuga (or Krta Yuga), there was only one varana called‘Hamsa’.
Everyone was a devotee of the Supreme Lord from birth and was bornwith wisdom.
Hence, all were sincere and there was only dharma in that age.
A Brahmana is one who knows Brahman. Hence, all were consideredequal to
Brahmanas in the Satya Yuga. Later, people who revolted becameKshatriyas, those
who were engaged in farming and trading-related activitiesbecame Vaishyas and
those who stopped learning and following the Vedas becameShudras. The same
cycle repeats in every Maha Yuga (one cycle of four Yugas).
Varana vs. Varna: The Difference
The word ‘varana’, translatesto “a choice-based position in society”. It
isderived from the word ‘Vara’ (choice), similar to Swayamvara, aceremony where
a princess ‘chooses’ her husband.
The word ‘Varna’, can be used as a short-form of the word ‘varana’, asused in
certain scriptures like the Bhagavata Purana. Otherwise, it means“colour” and
has nothing to do with a person’s social class.
The Differencebetween Jaati and Varana
Nowadays manyconsider jaati or caste, as a pre-requisite to attain a
certainvarana or to study the Vedas. This is incorrect. The word “caste”
isderived from the Portuguese and Spanish word “casta”, meaning “race”
or“breed”. It is synonymous to ‘jaati’, but definitely not to varana.
Jaati is one’s ethnicity ororigin. It does not determine their Varana. For
example, in India, there arelawyers from various states. Is it logical to claim
that all lawyers should beonly native -speakers and others should not be
allowed to pursue law? Definitelynot! Similarly, the modern-day castesystem
arose from selfishness, short-sightedness and lack of maturity of thepeople
belonging to the Tri-Varanas, who turned the Varana system into castesystem,
centuries ago.
Now let us try and dispel some of the most common misconceptionsregarding
Varanashrama
- Is dvija the birth after death, where a person’s varana changes in their
next birth?
No. This is a prevalentmyth regarding the varana system. All are born Shudras,
as mentioned in theshloka from the SkandaPurana. After learning the Vedas
under the tutelageof a Guru, one becomes a Vipra. Then, depending on their
mechanism of followingdharma, they are considered to be members of any of the
three varanas, namely –Brahmana, Kshatriya and Vaishya. Even if an educated
person commits a sin, they are downgraded to thelevel of a Shudra. (Manu
Smriti, Chapter 2, Shlokas 103, 157 and 168; Chapter4, Shloka 245)
- Why do certain shlokas say that one must be “born in the Veda” to
pronounce the Vedic texts? For example, Manu Smriti, Chapter 2, Shloka 172 says
this.
Just read Manu Smriti, Chapter2, Shloka 148. It says that “a person’s true
birth is by means of educationwhich is considered imperishable.” As mentioned
above in this article, one mustundergo Upanayana to become a dvija. After that,
the Vedas become one of theirparents. This concept is mentioned in Sage
Apasthamba’ s Dharma Sutra and wasalso misinterpreted by B. R. Ambedkar, in
his book,“Who Are the Shudras?”
- Are women also allowed to get educated and attain a certain varana as per
the Vedic rules? Why are women compared to Shudras by several present-day
scholars?
Yes, women are also supposedto have equal opportunities as men. There is no
discrimination on the basis ofsex, as per Hinduism and the Vedic rules. There
have been many female scholarslike Gargi, Maitreyi, Lopamudra, Gautami, etc.
They also wore the sacredthread, yajnopavitam (यज्ञोपवीतम्),just like educated
men, and also were Brahmachaariṇis. Moreover, the Rg Vedaand Atharva Veda
explicitly state that men and women are supposed to practiceBrahmachaarya.
(Refer to Rg Veda, Mandala 6, Sukta 44, Mantra 18; Mandala 10,Sukta 109, Mantra
5; Atharva Veda, Khanda 11, Sukta 5, Mantras 17 and 18)
The trend of comparing womento Shudras started after the onset of the caste
system, to prevent them fromreceiving education. This was all actually European
influence. It has nowbecome a widespread misconception regarding the varana
system.
- Are there any examples from scriptures of people changing their varanas or
belonging to a different one than that of their parents?
Yes. It is said in theManu Smriti (Chapter 10, Shloka 65) that “it is always
possible for a Brahmanato become a Shudra or vice versa. The same is applicable
to the Kshatriya andVaishya”. There are many examples of this from various
scriptures. You willfind several in the Vishnu Purana. A few are given below:
- Prishadha, the son of Prajapati Daksha, although born to a Brahmana,
became a Shudra. He performed tapasya and attained liberation. (Vishnu Purana,
Khanda4, Chapter 1, Shloka 14)
- Nabhaga, the son of a Kshatriya, became a Vaishya. Later,
his own sons became Kshatriyas. (Vishnu Purana, Khanda4, Chapter 1, Shloka 13)
- Nabhaga’s son, Drishta, became a Brahmana. His son became a Kshatriya.
(Vishnu Purana, Khanda4, Chapter 2, Shloka 2)
- Drishta’s grandchildren became Brahmanas again. (Vishnu Purana, Khanda9,
Chapter 2, Shloka 23)
- Raavana was the grandson of the Rishi Pulatsya, yet he
became a rakshassha.
- Vidura was raised by his mother, a servant. He was educated and became a
Brahmana.
Rishi Vishvamitra was formerlya Kshatriya who became a Brahmana, and moreover,
a Brahmarshi.
Xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx K Rajaram IRS 19524//20524
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